Inspiration for Homebuilders

[Brian Whatcott]

This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
generator, tower couplings and gin....


http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html

Brian W

(Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
Brian Whatcott > wrote:

> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
> generator, tower couplings and gin....
>
>
> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>
> Brian W
>
> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)

I hope that you have good lightning suppression!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Brian Whatcott]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>
>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>
>>
>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>
> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>

Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.

I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
at the tips.
And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
would be an issue...
What's your take, Orville?


Regards

Brian W

[Brian Whatcott]

Brian Whatcott wrote:
> Orval Fairbairn wrote:

> What's your take,
Orval

XXXOrville?XXX
(sorry 'bout that!)
>
>
> Regards
>
> Brian W

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
Brian Whatcott > wrote:

> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> >
> >> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
> >> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
> >> generator, tower couplings and gin....
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
> >>
> >> Brian W
> >>
> >> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
> >
> > I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
> >
>
> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>
> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
> at the tips.
> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
> would be an issue...
> What's your take, Orville?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Brian W

My first take is that you misspelled my name.

We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
got too high.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[jerry wass]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>
>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
>>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
>>>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>>
>>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>>>
>> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
>> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
>> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
>> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
>> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
>> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
>> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
>> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
>> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>>
>> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
>> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
>> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
>> at the tips.
>> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
>> would be an issue...
>> What's your take, Orville?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Brian W
>
> My first take is that you misspelled my name.
>
> We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
> rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
> acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
> dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
> got too high.
>
The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
cup? Jerry

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
Jerry Wass > wrote:

> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> >
> >> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
> >>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
> >>>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W
> >>>>
> >>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
> >>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
> >>>
> >> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
> >> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
> >> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
> >> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
> >> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
> >> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
> >> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
> >> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
> >> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
> >>
> >> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
> >> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
> >> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
> >> at the tips.
> >> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
> >> would be an issue...
> >> What's your take, Orville?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Brian W
> >
> > My first take is that you misspelled my name.
> >
> > We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
> > rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
> > acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
> > dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
> > got too high.
> >
> The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
> want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
> that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
> whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
> did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
> raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
> cup? Jerry

Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would always
turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the advancing
blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it was a
Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was built
about 1910.

A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
design.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Charlie[_2_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Jerry Wass > wrote:
>
>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
>>>>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice looking
>>>>>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>>>>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>>>>>
>>>> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
>>>> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
>>>> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
>>>> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
>>>> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
>>>> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
>>>> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
>>>> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
>>>> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
>>>> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
>>>> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
>>>> at the tips.
>>>> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
>>>> would be an issue...
>>>> What's your take, Orville?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>> My first take is that you misspelled my name.
>>>
>>> We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
>>> rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
>>> acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
>>> dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
>>> got too high.
>>>
>> The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
>> want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
>> that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
>> whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
>> did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
>> raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
>> cup? Jerry
>
> Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would always
> turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the advancing
> blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it was a
> Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was built
> about 1910.
>
> A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
> design.
>
Sounds like a pelton wheel.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pelton+wheel&aq=0&oq=pelton+w&aqi=g10

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
Charlie > wrote:

> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Jerry Wass > wrote:
> >
> >> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >>>>> In article >,
> >>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
> >>>>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice
> >>>>>> looking
> >>>>>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brian W
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
> >>>>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
> >>>>>
> >>>> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
> >>>> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
> >>>> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
> >>>> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
> >>>> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
> >>>> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
> >>>> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
> >>>> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
> >>>> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
> >>>> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
> >>>> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
> >>>> at the tips.
> >>>> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
> >>>> would be an issue...
> >>>> What's your take, Orville?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W
> >>> My first take is that you misspelled my name.
> >>>
> >>> We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
> >>> rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
> >>> acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
> >>> dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
> >>> got too high.
> >>>
> >> The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
> >> want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
> >> that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
> >> whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
> >> did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
> >> raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
> >> cup? Jerry
> >
> > Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would always
> > turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the advancing
> > blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it was a
> > Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was built
> > about 1910.
> >
> > A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
> > design.
> >
> Sounds like a pelton wheel.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pelton+wheel&aq=0&oq=pelton+w&aqi=g10

Nope -- it wasn't a Pelton Wheel!

As I posted earlier, I thought it was a Fairbanks-Morse model.

See the picture at: http://www.agwt.org/store/FairbanksWindmill.htm

The fan disc was parallel to the wind direction. This raises the
question: Could we dispense with the directional pivot and mount the fan
horizontal to the ground? It should be able to rotate with any direction
of wind.

Of course, good lightning protection is a MUST!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Dan[_12_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Charlie > wrote:
>
>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Jerry Wass > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
>>>>>>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice
>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>> generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>>>>>>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
>>>>>> tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
>>>>>> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
>>>>>> the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
>>>>>> think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
>>>>>> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
>>>>>> tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
>>>>>> rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
>>>>>> 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
>>>>>> would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
>>>>>> deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
>>>>>> at the tips.
>>>>>> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
>>>>>> would be an issue...
>>>>>> What's your take, Orville?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>> My first take is that you misspelled my name.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
>>>>> rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
>>>>> acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
>>>>> dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
>>>>> got too high.
>>>>>
>>>> The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
>>>> want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
>>>> that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
>>>> whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
>>>> did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
>>>> raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
>>>> cup? Jerry
>>> Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would always
>>> turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the advancing
>>> blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it was a
>>> Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was built
>>> about 1910.
>>>
>>> A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
>>> design.
>>>
>> Sounds like a pelton wheel.
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pelton+wheel&aq=0&oq=pelton+w&aqi=g10
>
> Nope -- it wasn't a Pelton Wheel!
>
> As I posted earlier, I thought it was a Fairbanks-Morse model.
>
> See the picture at: http://www.agwt.org/store/FairbanksWindmill.htm
>
> The fan disc was parallel to the wind direction. This raises the
> question: Could we dispense with the directional pivot and mount the fan
> horizontal to the ground? It should be able to rotate with any direction
> of wind.
>
> Of course, good lightning protection is a MUST!
>

If memory serves the vane's angle could be manually changed as
needed for variations wind speed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[John Kimmel[_2_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Charlie > wrote:
>
>
>>Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Jerry Wass > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article >,
>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article >,
>>>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70 ft pole.
>>>>>>>>It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and nice
>>>>>>>>looking
>>>>>>>>generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Brian W
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at the
>>>>>>tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
>>>>>>It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker mentioned
>>>>>>the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the wind, and I
>>>>>>think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
>>>>>>I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated wind. The
>>>>>>tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so the rotation
>>>>>>rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr /
>>>>>>5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed 16 mph
>>>>>>would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of revolution, so for 15
>>>>>>deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees from the plane of revolution
>>>>>>at the tips.
>>>>>>And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled blades
>>>>>>would be an issue...
>>>>>> What's your take, Orville?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brian W
>>>>>
>>>>>My first take is that you misspelled my name.
>>>>>
>>>>>We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane of
>>>>>rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right angle. The fan
>>>>>acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller. IIRC, the fan had about a
>>>>>dozen curved steel blades. It also had a brake on it for when the winds
>>>>>got too high.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they didn't
>>>>want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated the lever
>>>>that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
>>>>whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
>>>>did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades were
>>>>raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a snowcone
>>>>cup? Jerry
>>>
>>>Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would always
>>>turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the advancing
>>>blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it was a
>>>Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was built
>>>about 1910.
>>>
>>>A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
>>>design.
>>>
>>
>>Sounds like a pelton wheel.
>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pelton+wheel&aq=0&oq=pelton+w&aqi=g10
>
>
> Nope -- it wasn't a Pelton Wheel!
>
> As I posted earlier, I thought it was a Fairbanks-Morse model.
>
> See the picture at: http://www.agwt.org/store/FairbanksWindmill.htm
>
> The fan disc was parallel to the wind direction. This raises the
> question: Could we dispense with the directional pivot and mount the fan
> horizontal to the ground? It should be able to rotate with any direction
> of wind.
>
> Of course, good lightning protection is a MUST!

A windmill with the fan mounted horizontal to the ground is called a "vertical axis wind turbine". The Savonius and Darrieus are
examples of this.

On a Fairbanks-Morse type windmill, when the vane is parallel to the disk, it is "out of gear" (according to the windmill brochure I
found). As wind speed increases above 15 MPH, the disk of the windmill turns more and more away from the wind to maintain constant
RPM. At very high wind speeds, the disk is parallel to the wind and a brake is engaged to stop it rotating altogether. To take the
windmill off line, (as you would if you've upgraded to an electric pump), you lock the vane and the brake in the furled position.
http://vintagewindmillpartslist.com/FMWGtrade.pdf

[Brian Whatcott]

John Kimmel wrote:
> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Charlie > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> Jerry Wass > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>>> Brian Whatcott > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a pointer to a home build 20 ft diam windmill on a 70
>>>>>>>>> ft pole.
>>>>>>>>> It features three 10 ft long laminated red cedar blades and
>>>>>>>>> nice looking generator, tower couplings and gin....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.otherpower.com/20page1.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Thanks to Larry for the pointer on rec.boats)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope that you have good lightning suppression!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ha! I noticed the maker specified a blade angle of 3 degrees at
>>>>>>> the tips, increasing to (approaching) 9 degrees at the roots.
>>>>>>> It took me a little while to get my head round this. The maker
>>>>>>> mentioned the blades are set flat (undersurface) forward into the
>>>>>>> wind, and I think he mentioned a target rotation rate of 65 rpm.
>>>>>>> I imagine he was thinking of an AoA of 15 degrees at the rated
>>>>>>> wind. The tips do a revolution in pi x 20 ft = 63 ft per rev - so
>>>>>>> the rotation rate at 65 rpm would give a tip speed of 65rpm X
>>>>>>> 63ft/rev X 60 min/hr / 5280 ft/mile or 47 mph.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess the pitch angle for zero AoA at the starting windspeed
>>>>>>> 16 mph would be atan 16/47 = 19 degrees from the plane of
>>>>>>> revolution, so for 15 deg AoA the pitch angle might be 4 degrees
>>>>>>> from the plane of revolution at the tips.
>>>>>>> And he mentions 3 degrees. But getting up to speed with stalled
>>>>>>> blades would be an issue...
>>>>>>> What's your take, Orville?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian W
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first take is that you misspelled my name.
>>>>>> We had a big windmill on our farm when I was growing up. The plane
>>>>>> of rotation was parallel to the wind, rather than at a right
>>>>>> angle. The fan acted more as a wind turbine than a propeller.
>>>>>> IIRC, the fan had about a dozen curved steel blades. It also had a
>>>>>> brake on it for when the winds got too high.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The blades were turned sideways (parallel to the tail) if they
>>>>> didn't want it to pump any water---If you needed water you operated
>>>>> the lever that placed the blades perpendicular to the rudder, tail,
>>>>> whatever,-pointing into the wind, then you got some POWER..---OR--
>>>>> did you have one of those weird looking things where the blades
>>>>> were raked back severely at an angle about like the back 2/3 of a
>>>>> snowcone cup? Jerry
>>>>
>>>> Neither. The fan was 10-12 ft diameter, fixed so the wind would
>>>> always turn the fan. Since the blades were curved (cambered), the
>>>> advancing blade had less drag than the receding blade. I think it
>>>> was a Fairbanks-Morse product, but don't hold me to that, and it was
>>>> built about 1910.
>>>> A lot of windmills in our area (Northern Illinois) were of similar
>>>> design.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like a pelton wheel.
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pelton+wheel&aq=0&oq=pelton+w&aqi=g10
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nope -- it wasn't a Pelton Wheel!
>> As I posted earlier, I thought it was a Fairbanks-Morse model.
>> See the picture at: http://www.agwt.org/store/FairbanksWindmill.htm
>>
>> The fan disc was parallel to the wind direction. This raises the
>> question: Could we dispense with the directional pivot and mount the
>> fan horizontal to the ground? It should be able to rotate with any
>> direction of wind.
>> Of course, good lightning protection is a MUST!
>
> A windmill with the fan mounted horizontal to the ground is called a
> "vertical axis wind turbine". The Savonius and Darrieus are examples of
> this.
>
> On a Fairbanks-Morse type windmill, when the vane is parallel to the
> disk, it is "out of gear" (according to the windmill brochure I found).
> As wind speed increases above 15 MPH, the disk of the windmill turns
> more and more away from the wind to maintain constant RPM. At very high
> wind speeds, the disk is parallel to the wind and a brake is engaged to
> stop it rotating altogether. To take the windmill off line, (as you
> would if you've upgraded to an electric pump), you lock the vane and the
> brake in the furled position.
> http://vintagewindmillpartslist.com/FMWGtrade.pdf

I notice that the design which started this thread seems to have a
particularly simple wind overspeed unloader.
The mill rotation axis is offset to one side of the mast rotary
bearing, and the tail vane is offset to the other side of the mast
bearing, but it is also set on a pivot tube oriented 45 degrees or so to
the vertical. The M.O seems to be that excess wind tries to "fold the
fan and the tail in two, resisted by the tail's lifting away from the
horizontal as the wind blows harder.

Brian W