Closed Airspace

[Mike Granby]

Yesterday I was flying from York PA to Myrtle Beach IFR, direct to
destination at the time, and the controller called me and said that I
had to make a decision. The airspace ahead was "closed" so I could
either be routed around it IFR, or I could cancel and climb 500 ft,
and continue VFR for a while, and get my IFR back from the next
controller. (He stressed that he was in no way soliciting a
cancelation -- it was my call.) Since I didn't want to go out of my
way, I cancelled, climbed and stayed on the same code for advisories,
and sure enough the next controller offered me IFR again, so I was
recleared to destination and put back on an IFR altitude. Never heard
of this before. Any comments?

[gpsman]

On Jun 20, 10:51*am, Mike Granby > wrote:
> Yesterday I was flying from York PA to Myrtle Beach IFR, direct to
> destination at the time, Any comments?

Looks like about 450 miles. Any clues as to where you might have been
at the time... maybe near Ft. Pickett?
-----

- gpsman

[Mike Granby]

Near Seymour Johnson, so I did consider that it was the MOA north of
there, but then why wouldn't he offer me a descent to 6000 instead to
go under it, since I was only at 8000. (I've flown this route several
times in the last few months, including in the week, and never had
this issue before, but I've typically been at 6000, so the MOA does
make sense.)

[BT]

He should have listed the airspace by name.. did he? A Restricted area or
MOA?

He cannot clear non participating IFR aircraft through an active MOA. Non
Participating means that you are not part of those that are reserving the
MOA.

I'm surprised he offered traffic advisories while you were in the MOA.
Perhaps he knew that those reserving it were not there yet, but it had "gone
hot" and he could not sued it for IFR traffic.

Maybe he did not offer lower because he already had enough traffic ducking
under the MOA.
BT

"Mike Granby" > wrote in message
...
>
> Near Seymour Johnson, so I did consider that it was the MOA north of
> there, but then why wouldn't he offer me a descent to 6000 instead to
> go under it, since I was only at 8000. (I've flown this route several
> times in the last few months, including in the week, and never had
> this issue before, but I've typically been at 6000, so the MOA does
> make sense.)

[Mike Granby]

> He should have listed the airspace by name..
> did he? A Restricted area or MOA?

Nope. Just "airspace closure".

> He cannot clear non participating IFR aircraft through an
> active MOA. Non Participating means that you are not
> part of those that are reserving the MOA.

My understanding is that IFR traffic can be cleared through a MOA if
ATC can ensure separation, so presumably there are some cases when
they can, and some cases when they can't. I wonder what defines which
case it is?

> I'm surprised he offered traffic advisories while you were in the MOA.

Yep.

> Perhaps he knew that those reserving it were not
> there yet, but it had "gone hot" and he could not
> sued it for IFR traffic.

Would make sense.

[BT]

Yes.. IFR traffic can be cleared through the MOA if IFR separation can be
assured.
He can do it if he is controlling the MOA users and ask them to either stay
in one corner while you blast through, or give them a "hard deck" above your
altitude while you transition.

If the MOA is being controlled by a military controller running intercepts
with the active players, the military controller most likely did not want to
bother with you, did not want you on frequency and told the Civil ATC to
keep you.

BT

"Mike Granby" > wrote in message
...
>
>> He should have listed the airspace by name..
>> did he? A Restricted area or MOA?
>
> Nope. Just "airspace closure".
>
>> He cannot clear non participating IFR aircraft through an
>> active MOA. Non Participating means that you are not
>> part of those that are reserving the MOA.
>
> My understanding is that IFR traffic can be cleared through a MOA if
> ATC can ensure separation, so presumably there are some cases when
> they can, and some cases when they can't. I wonder what defines which
> case it is?
>
>> I'm surprised he offered traffic advisories while you were in the MOA.
>
> Yep.
>
>> Perhaps he knew that those reserving it were not
>> there yet, but it had "gone hot" and he could not
>> sued it for IFR traffic.
>
> Would make sense.

[xyzzy]

On Jun 20, 10:51*am, Mike Granby > wrote:
> Yesterday I was flying from York PA to Myrtle Beach IFR, direct to
> destination at the time, and the controller called me and said that I
> had to make a decision. The airspace ahead was "closed" so I could
> either be routed around it IFR, or I could cancel and climb 500 ft,
> and continue VFR for a while, and get my IFR back from the next
> controller. (He stressed that he was in no way soliciting a
> cancelation -- it was my call.) Since I didn't want to go out of my
> way, I cancelled, climbed and stayed on the same code for advisories,
> and sure enough the next controller offered me IFR again, so I was
> recleared to destination and put back on an IFR altitude. Never heard
> of this before. Any comments?

I suspect this is your explanation:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1579599.html

"For about 30 minutes early Friday evening, several air corridors
above Eastern North Carolina had to be shut down because there was no
air-traffic controller available, said Curt Johnson, vice president of
the union's Washington Center division."

[Mike Granby]

> I suspect this is your explanation:

Now that makes sense. Especially since after I went VFR, the
controller gave me a time at which to contact Seymour Approach if I
lost radio contact with him before I got a hand-off. He came back
later and said there was a change of plan, and that another controller
had agreed to work me VFR to the south, so I never had to rely on the
timed freq change, but it does rather fit with this story.