Clearance on hold, hold for release

[Hap[_2_]]

Up until the other day, when I heard "Hold for Release" it was after I
had copied, read back and accepted my IFR clearance, squalk code, and
had received ground control clearance to taxi to the departure runway.
It rarely involved waiting more than 10 minutes before being cleared
to taxi, or takeoff.

Our airport has a clearance frequency, which I contacted first on the
day in question after engine start. The controller said switch to
ground frequency to receive my clearance, which I did. I repeated
"ready to copy" and received my clearance as filed except for a squalk
code and departure frequency. I asked for the code and frequency and
was told "Standby, Hold for Release".

I figured, OK, there's a slight delay. So I asked again in 10 minutes,
as was told in an abrupt manner, "Hold for release", but nothing else.
So, after waiting another 30 minutes with the engine running I called
again for my squalk code and departure frequency. I was pretty
surprised by the response. The controller said, almost as a
reprimand, very angrily, "What are you still waiting there for! You'll
get your squalk when you're ready for takeoff!" Then and only then did
he issue taxi instructions to the active, which I complied with.

After getting into position for the run-up, he said to contact the
tower, which I did. Tower asked me how much time I needed to get
ready, and I said, "About 5 minutes, but I still need a squalk code
and departure frequency." Then, tower said, "standby, hold for
release." After a minute he came back with the squalk code and
frequency, and I was cleared to depart.

So, my question is, what exactly does the term "hold for release" mean
within the context of the situation I've described? What could/should
I have done differently; i.e., said "ready to taxi" after hearing
"hold for release" the first time, expecting to receive the code and
frequency from the tower when ready for takeoff?

Thank you very much.
Hap

[Mike Granby]

I've only ever heard "hold for release" at non-towered airports when
using an RCO or when working via FSS. Then, it's part of the clearance
and needs to be read back. At a towered airport, I don't see the point
in him telling you "hold for release" as ATC has to clear you on to
the runway in any case. I've some times been told "Hold short --
awaiting IFR release" when I've called #1 and ready to go at a towered
airport, but that's really just a hold short instruction with a reason
attached, and even then, it's not like your situation where you were
given the hold pretaxi.

[Mike Granby]

Further to this, I found this in the ATC manual...

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/Atc/Chp4/atc0403.html#atc0403.html.1

> "Hold for release" instructions shall be used
> when necessary to inform a pilot or a controller
> that a departure clearance is not valid until
> additional instructions are received.

While it's grouped together with void times and other techniques used
at non-towered airports, there's nothing in there at explicitly says
it can't be used to indicate an incomplete clearance at a towered
field. Still it's awfully misleading. "I'll get back to you with the
beacon code" would have been a lot clearer!

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Hap wrote:
>
> Up until the other day, when I heard "Hold for Release" it was after I
> had copied, read back and accepted my IFR clearance, squalk code, and
> had received ground control clearance to taxi to the departure runway.
> It rarely involved waiting more than 10 minutes before being cleared
> to taxi, or takeoff.
>
> Our airport has a clearance frequency, which I contacted first on the
> day in question after engine start. The controller said switch to
> ground frequency to receive my clearance, which I did. I repeated
> "ready to copy" and received my clearance as filed except for a squalk
> code and departure frequency. I asked for the code and frequency and
> was told "Standby, Hold for Release".
>
> I figured, OK, there's a slight delay. So I asked again in 10 minutes,
> as was told in an abrupt manner, "Hold for release", but nothing else.
> So, after waiting another 30 minutes with the engine running I called
> again for my squalk code and departure frequency. I was pretty
> surprised by the response. The controller said, almost as a
> reprimand, very angrily, "What are you still waiting there for! You'll
> get your squalk when you're ready for takeoff!" Then and only then did
> he issue taxi instructions to the active, which I complied with.
>
> After getting into position for the run-up, he said to contact the
> tower, which I did. Tower asked me how much time I needed to get
> ready, and I said, "About 5 minutes, but I still need a squalk code
> and departure frequency." Then, tower said, "standby, hold for
> release." After a minute he came back with the squalk code and
> frequency, and I was cleared to depart.
>
> So, my question is, what exactly does the term "hold for release" mean
> within the context of the situation I've described? What could/should
> I have done differently; i.e., said "ready to taxi" after hearing
> "hold for release" the first time, expecting to receive the code and
> frequency from the tower when ready for takeoff?
>

"Hold for release" is used to inform a pilot that an IFR departure clearance
is not valid until a release or release time has been issued. In the
context of the situation you described, an IFR departure from a towered
airport, it's superfluous as you cannot depart without a takeoff clearance.

[BeechSundowner]

On Jun 24, 7:53*am, Hap > wrote:
> Up until the other day, when I heard "Hold for Release" it was after I
> had copied, read back and accepted my IFR clearance, squalk code, and
> had received ground control clearance to taxi to the departure runway.
> It rarely involved waiting more than 10 minutes before being cleared
> to taxi, or takeoff.
>
> Our airport has a clearance frequency, which I contacted first on the
> day in question after engine start. The controller said switch to
> ground frequency to receive my clearance, which I did. I repeated
> "ready to copy" and received my clearance as filed except for a squalk
> code and departure frequency. I asked for the code and frequency and
> was told "Standby, Hold for Release".
>
> I figured, OK, there's a slight delay. So I asked again in 10 minutes,
> as was told in an abrupt manner, "Hold for release", but nothing else.
> So, after waiting another 30 minutes with the engine running I called
> again for my squalk code and departure frequency. I was pretty
> surprised by the response. The *controller said, almost as a
> reprimand, very angrily, "What are you still waiting there for! You'll
> get your squalk when you're ready for takeoff!" Then and only then did
> he issue taxi instructions to the active, which I complied with.
>
> After getting into position for the run-up, he said to contact the
> tower, which I did. Tower asked me how much time I needed to get
> ready, and I said, "About 5 minutes, but I still need a squalk code
> and departure frequency." Then, tower said, "standby, hold for
> release." *After a minute he came back with the squalk code and
> frequency, and I was cleared to depart.
>
> So, my question is, what exactly does the term "hold for release" mean
> within the context of the situation I've described? What could/should
> I have done differently; i.e., said "ready to taxi" after hearing
> "hold for release" the first time, expecting to receive the code and
> frequency from the tower when ready for takeoff?
>
> Thank you very much.
> Hap

Hmm, you don't say what weather conditions were but if it was me, and
I couldn't get my clearance on the ground and it was VFR, I would have
departed VFR and picked up my IFR in the air.

I have heard hold for release at a NON radar tower as I have gotten
that at KTUP.

Usually that's at the end of the runway where I get hold for release
while tower coordinates with Center, but I get my squawk with Ground.
If I had what you had going on, I would have asked ground again if it
was VFR ghow much longer and if it was unknown, I would depart VFR and
pick up the clearance with Center. IFR conditions well, you are stuck
between a rock and a hard place.

[Ron Garret]

In article
>,
Hap > wrote:

> So, my question is, what exactly does the term "hold for release" mean
> within the context of the situation I've described? What could/should
> I have done differently;

My suggestion would have been to call the tower back and say, "Uh, I'm
not sure I understand what you mean by 'hold for release' in the context
of my current situation. Could you please clarify?"

I once sat on the ground twiddling my thumbs for ten minutes because I
didn't follow my own advice when it turned out I didn't know what a void
time actually was (never having departed IFR from a non-towered
airport). And I had passengers which made it doubly embarrassing.

rg

[will alibrandi]

On Jun 24, 8:53*am, Hap > wrote:
> Up until the other day, when I heard "Hold for Release" it was after I
> had copied, read back and accepted my IFR clearance, squalk code, and
> had received ground control clearance to taxi to the departure runway.
> It rarely involved waiting more than 10 minutes before being cleared
> to taxi, or takeoff.
>
> Our airport has a clearance frequency, which I contacted first on the
> day in question after engine start. The controller said switch to
> ground frequency to receive my clearance, which I did. I repeated
> "ready to copy" and received my clearance as filed except for a squalk
> code and departure frequency. I asked for the code and frequency and
> was told "Standby, Hold for Release".
>
> I figured, OK, there's a slight delay. So I asked again in 10 minutes,
> as was told in an abrupt manner, "Hold for release", but nothing else.
> So, after waiting another 30 minutes with the engine running I called
> again for my squalk code and departure frequency. I was pretty
> surprised by the response. The *controller said, almost as a
> reprimand, very angrily, "What are you still waiting there for! You'll
> get your squalk when you're ready for takeoff!" Then and only then did
> he issue taxi instructions to the active, which I complied with.
>
> After getting into position for the run-up, he said to contact the
> tower, which I did. Tower asked me how much time I needed to get
> ready, and I said, "About 5 minutes, but I still need a squalk code
> and departure frequency." Then, tower said, "standby, hold for
> release." *After a minute he came back with the squalk code and
> frequency, and I was cleared to depart.
>
> So, my question is, what exactly does the term "hold for release" mean
> within the context of the situation I've described? What could/should
> I have done differently; i.e., said "ready to taxi" after hearing
> "hold for release" the first time, expecting to receive the code and
> frequency from the tower when ready for takeoff?
>
> Thank you very much.
> Hap

When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line, that's
when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
your IFR flight plan and get a release. Sounds like the controller was
very unprofessional. Maybe he was a trainee? If you waited 40 minutes
that's BS. Normally you get your clearance including squawk code from
clearance delivery (or ground if combined) before you taxi. That's
been my experience, anyway.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

will alibrandi wrote:
>
> When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line, that's
> when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
> controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
> your IFR flight plan and get a release. Sounds like the controller was
> very unprofessional. Maybe he was a trainee? If you waited 40 minutes
> that's BS. Normally you get your clearance including squawk code from
> clearance delivery (or ground if combined) before you taxi. That's
> been my experience, anyway.
>

That's a lousy procedure. Why wait until the aircraft is ready to takeoff
to call for the IFR release? Call for it when the aircraft begins taxiing
and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's ready to go.

[Mike Adams[_1_]]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:

> will alibrandi wrote:
>>
>> When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line,
>> that's when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
>> controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
>> your IFR flight plan and get a release.
>>
>
> That's a lousy procedure. Why wait until the aircraft is ready to
> takeoff to call for the IFR release? Call for it when the aircraft
> begins taxiing and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's
> ready to go.

The former is the procedure at my airport (Class D under a Class B).
After taxi and run-up, you contact tower with "ready for departure" and
they then give you "hold for release" and contact the nearby Tracon to
coordinate. Depending on the traffic at nearby airports the delay can be
signficant.

I've never heard "hold for release" from clearance delivery or ground. I
agree that this sounds like a bad procedure, and unclear on the meaning.
Maybe the (new) controller just wanted to make it clear that his
clearance did not include a release or clearance for takeoff, but that
should have been obvious it seems to me.

Mike

[Mike Adams[_1_]]

BTW, it's nice to see an actual aviation discussion here. Maybe usenet is
still alive!

Mike

[will alibrandi]

On Jun 25, 11:37*am, Mike Adams > wrote:
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:
>
> > will alibrandi wrote:
>
> >> When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line,
> >> that's when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
> >> controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
> >> your IFR flight plan and get a release.
>
> > That's a lousy procedure. *Why wait until the aircraft is ready to
> > takeoff to call for the IFR release? *Call for it when the aircraft
> > begins taxiing and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's
> > ready to go.
>
> The former is the procedure at my airport (Class D under a Class B).
> After taxi and run-up, you contact tower with "ready for departure" and
> they then give you "hold for release" and contact the nearby Tracon to
> coordinate. Depending on the traffic at nearby airports the delay can be
> signficant.
>
> I've never heard "hold for release" from clearance delivery or ground. I
> agree that this sounds like a bad procedure, and unclear on the meaning.
> Maybe the (new) controller just wanted to make it clear that his
> clearance did not include a release or clearance for takeoff, but that
> should have been obvious it seems to me.
>
> Mike

I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
field would probably take longer.

[will alibrandi]

I guess if you're in a real big hurry you could tell the ground
controller you'll be ready upon reaching the runway. The charter co I
fly for has taxi and lineup checklists to complete so we're never in a
big rush to get in the air.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

will alibrandi wrote:
>
> I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
> spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
> seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
> line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
> taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
> you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
> release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
> ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
> field would probably take longer.
>

Nothing in FAAO 7110.65 requires the call for the release to wait until the
aircraft is ready for takeoff. That's a lousy procedure wherever it's done.

[Bob Noel[_6_]]

In article >,
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:

> will alibrandi wrote:
> >
> > When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line, that's
> > when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
> > controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
> > your IFR flight plan and get a release. Sounds like the controller was
> > very unprofessional. Maybe he was a trainee? If you waited 40 minutes
> > that's BS. Normally you get your clearance including squawk code from
> > clearance delivery (or ground if combined) before you taxi. That's
> > been my experience, anyway.
> >
>
> That's a lousy procedure. Why wait until the aircraft is ready to takeoff
> to call for the IFR release? Call for it when the aircraft begins taxiing
> and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's ready to go.

It's been a while since I've flown IFR, but at KBED, which is
pretty close to KBOS, the mix of aircraft is such that you can't
be sure who will be ready to go first. Thus I figure Boston
Approach doesn't want to know about the guy until he is
really ready for takeoff.

The tower has, on occasion, asked aircraft if they'll be
ready upon reaching the active runway.

The only time I had a "hold for release" was at KPOU when
NY was busy and the tower advised me of a 15+ minute delay.
So I just sat at the runway with the engine off and my
handheld on (I was the only one there)

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

Bob Noel wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I've flown IFR, but at KBED, which is
> pretty close to KBOS, the mix of aircraft is such that you can't
> be sure who will be ready to go first. Thus I figure Boston
> Approach doesn't want to know about the guy until he is
> really ready for takeoff.
>

If the controller is competent, it rarely matters who's ready first.

[will alibrandi]

On Jun 25, 2:52*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll" >
wrote:
> will alibrandi wrote:
>
> > I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
> > spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
> > seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
> > line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
> > taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
> > you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
> > release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
> > ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
> > field would probably take longer.
>
> Nothing in FAAO 7110.65 requires the call for the release to wait until the
> aircraft is ready for takeoff. *That's a lousy procedure wherever it's done.

Okay Steve, you've made your point. Twice.

[Hap[_2_]]

I very much appreciate all the members response. Since originally
posting, a similar IFR trip occurred from the same field. Different
controller, though.

This time after hearing "readback correct" from Clearance Delivery, I
received the departure frequency, and was told clearly I'd get the
squalk when holding ready for takeoff. I then said "ready to taxi" and
was cleared to the active.

Holding short lasted almost 45 minutes anyway, it was a low ceiling
day, and even though there were only two other aircraft waiting for
IFR release at our field, a number of local airports are combined as
far as ATC is concerned for IFR traffic and we simply had to wait our
turn.

During IFR training (at different airport) ATC used what the CFII
called a 'gate hold' ; for a period of expected delay after clearance
approval but before taxi. Engine start could then be offset that
amount of time to save fuel and reduce rwy/taxiway congestion. We
stayed in the parking spot until told to contact ground to taxi.

It's still teamwork though, pilots and ATC, and thanks to the feedback
here the next time will be more informed, and safer. Thanks!

[Peter Dohm]

"Hap" > wrote in message
...
>I very much appreciate all the members response. Since originally
> posting, a similar IFR trip occurred from the same field. Different
> controller, though.
>
> This time after hearing "readback correct" from Clearance Delivery, I
> received the departure frequency, and was told clearly I'd get the
> squalk when holding ready for takeoff. I then said "ready to taxi" and
> was cleared to the active.
>
> Holding short lasted almost 45 minutes anyway, it was a low ceiling
> day, and even though there were only two other aircraft waiting for
> IFR release at our field, a number of local airports are combined as
> far as ATC is concerned for IFR traffic and we simply had to wait our
> turn.
>
> During IFR training (at different airport) ATC used what the CFII
> called a 'gate hold' ; for a period of expected delay after clearance
> approval but before taxi. Engine start could then be offset that
> amount of time to save fuel and reduce rwy/taxiway congestion. We
> stayed in the parking spot until told to contact ground to taxi.
>
> It's still teamwork though, pilots and ATC, and thanks to the feedback
> here the next time will be more informed, and safer. Thanks!
>
That "gate hold" is the only thing that I had ever experienced while riding
along--as I have never been close to an instrument raing personally.
However, that was Pre-ElizabethDole.