Affordable Glider

[K Smith]

O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
glider of my own in the not so distant future. I had a lot of fun flying a
1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
getting one as the money flow allows. But there is that part inside me that
thinks of a nice glass ship. Are there any glass ships that can be had for
under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. would probably already
bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
April and had to have surgery. So here I sit all summer in beautifull
Tennessee and can't fly.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[rlovinggood]

On Jul 20, 11:37*am, "K Smith" > wrote:
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. *I had a lot of fun flying a
> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. *But there is that part inside me that
> thinks of a nice glass ship. *Are there any glass ships that can be had for
> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. * would probably already
> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
> April and had to have surgery. *So here I sit all summer in beautifull
> Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.

You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
I've got experience with that :-)

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

[Nick Olson[_2_]]

http://www.wingsandwheels.com - quite a few ships in your price bracket on
there at the moment




At 15:48 20 July 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>On Jul 20, 11:37=A0am, "K Smith" wrote:
>> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase
a
>> glider of my own in the not so distant future. =A0I had a lot of fun
>flyi=
>ng a
>> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously
about
>> getting one as the money flow allows. =A0But there is that part inside
>me=
> that
>> thinks of a nice glass ship. =A0Are there any glass ships that can be
>had=
> for
>> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. =A0 would probably
>alre=
>ady
>> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
work
>i=
>n
>> April and had to have surgery. =A0So here I sit all summer in
beautifull
>> Tennessee and can't fly.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
>You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
>or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
>fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
>amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
>made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
>instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
>LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>I've got experience with that :-)
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>

[Nick Olson[_2_]]

http://www.wingsandwheels.com - quite a few ships in your price bracket on
there at the moment




At 15:48 20 July 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>On Jul 20, 11:37=A0am, "K Smith" wrote:
>> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase
a
>> glider of my own in the not so distant future. =A0I had a lot of fun
>flyi=
>ng a
>> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously
about
>> getting one as the money flow allows. =A0But there is that part inside
>me=
> that
>> thinks of a nice glass ship. =A0Are there any glass ships that can be
>had=
> for
>> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. =A0 would probably
>alre=
>ady
>> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
work
>i=
>n
>> April and had to have surgery. =A0So here I sit all summer in
beautifull
>> Tennessee and can't fly.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
>You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
>or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
>fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
>amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
>made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
>instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
>LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>I've got experience with that :-)
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>

[Nick Olson[_2_]]

http://www.wingsandwheels.com - quite a few ships in your price bracket on
there at the moment




At 15:48 20 July 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>On Jul 20, 11:37=A0am, "K Smith" wrote:
>> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase
a
>> glider of my own in the not so distant future. =A0I had a lot of fun
>flyi=
>ng a
>> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously
about
>> getting one as the money flow allows. =A0But there is that part inside
>me=
> that
>> thinks of a nice glass ship. =A0Are there any glass ships that can be
>had=
> for
>> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. =A0 would probably
>alre=
>ady
>> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
work
>i=
>n
>> April and had to have surgery. =A0So here I sit all summer in
beautifull
>> Tennessee and can't fly.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
>You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
>or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
>fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
>amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
>made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
>instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
>LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>I've got experience with that :-)
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>

[Nick Olson[_2_]]

http://www.wingsandwheels.com - quite a few ships in your price bracket on
there at the moment




At 15:48 20 July 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>On Jul 20, 11:37=A0am, "K Smith" wrote:
>> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase
a
>> glider of my own in the not so distant future. =A0I had a lot of fun
>flyi=
>ng a
>> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously
about
>> getting one as the money flow allows. =A0But there is that part inside
>me=
> that
>> thinks of a nice glass ship. =A0Are there any glass ships that can be
>had=
> for
>> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. =A0 would probably
>alre=
>ady
>> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
work
>i=
>n
>> April and had to have surgery. =A0So here I sit all summer in
beautifull
>> Tennessee and can't fly.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
>You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
>or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
>fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
>amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
>made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
>instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
>LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>I've got experience with that :-)
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>

[rlovinggood]

> You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
> or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
> fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
> amount. *So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
> made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
> instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
> LEAST, is condition of the trailer. *Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
> properly. *But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
> busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. *Yea,
> I've got experience with that *:-)
>
> Ray Lovinggood
> Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

EDIT: Uh, I think that should have stated "...$15,000..." and not
$15. I think I would stear clear of a $15 glider. Now, a $64 LS4,
with a refrigerator in the trailer, etc, might be a steal!

[Nickname unavailable]

Consider also a partnership with someone of equivalent skill level and
aspirations. They can work out very well and you both could be sharing
in a $30k ship!

Bob


On Jul 20, 11:37*am, "K Smith" > wrote:
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. *I had a lot of fun flying a
> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. *But there is that part inside me that
> thinks of a nice glass ship. *Are there any glass ships that can be had for
> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. * would probably already
> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
> April and had to have surgery. *So here I sit all summer in beautifull
> Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[Gavin Short[_2_]]

At 15:48 20 July 2009, rlovinggood wrote:
>On Jul 20, 11:37=A0am, "K Smith" wrote:
>> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase
a
>> glider of my own in the not so distant future. =A0I had a lot of fun
>flyi=
>ng a
>> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously
about
>> getting one as the money flow allows. =A0But there is that part inside
>me=
> that
>> thinks of a nice glass ship. =A0Are there any glass ships that can be
>had=
> for
>> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. =A0 would probably
>alre=
>ady
>> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
work
>i=
>n
>> April and had to have surgery. =A0So here I sit all summer in
beautifull
>> Tennessee and can't fly.
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
>You might get a nice glass ship for around $15, such as a Std Cirrus
>or an LS1 or an ASW-15, Libelle, and other "first generation
>fiberglass" but don't expect the trailer to be all that great for that
>amount. So, keep an eye for glider condition (repair history, who
>made the repairs, if any, gel coat condition, canopy condition,
>instruments, weight and balance and allowable load, and last, BUT NOT
>LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>I've got experience with that :-)
>
>Ray Lovinggood
>Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
>



http://www.wingsandwheels.com/want-ads2.htm
for a Std Cirrus that looks interesting

http://www.standardcirrus.org/

Gavin
Std Cirrus, G-SCNN, #173
hopelessly biased!!!

[Chris Reed[_2_]]

rlovinggood wrote:
> last, BUT NOT
> LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
> properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
> busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
> I've got experience with that :-)
>
I'd almost put the condition of the trailer first! Some years ago I
bought into a Grob Astir CS (Grob 102 in the US I think) which had a
very poor trailer. For the first year or so I could not use the glider
properly because of fear of landing out.

Once the trailer was replaced I had some great flights. So, either make
sure you have a working trailer (fittings etc can be modified, but a
barely roadworthy trailer is a deal breaker) or budget to replace the
trailer. In the UK, $1,500 equivalent can buy you a working trailer
which you can make pretty good with some effort - it might help the
original poster if US pilots gave him the likely cost of a s/h trailer.

Don't forget the price is for the complete outfit - glider + instruments
+ trailer. At this price level the aircraft itself must be no more than
$12k of the total $15k, if that helps when negotiating.

[John Cochrane]

On Jul 20, 10:37*am, "K Smith" > wrote:
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. *I had a lot of fun flying a
> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. *But there is that part inside me that
> thinks of a nice glass ship. *Are there any glass ships that can be had for
> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. * would probably already
> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
> April and had to have surgery. *So here I sit all summer in beautifull
> Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Consider a better glider. The "cost" of a glider is not its purchase
price, since it will be worth about the same when you sell it. Gliders
pretty much keep their value, so the annual cost is the lost interest.
Gliders depreciate a lot less than cars.

A $15,000 glider is thus a cost of about $750 per year (5%
interest).Insurance will be over $1,000 per year. 50 tows at $30 is
$1,500. Gas to the airport or trips is going to be on the order of
$1,000 per year. Annuals, BFRs, club member ship, and so forth are all
the same no matter what glider you have. Beer and mexican food
add....well you can see where this is going.

All of this is pretty cheap, compared to golf, skiing or anything else
you could do, and the glider is actually not that big a part of the
cost. Doubling the "glider" part of the cost to $1,500 per year
($30,000 glider) really doesn't do that much to the overall cost of
the sport. But it gets you out of antique maintenance into ASW20 / LS4
land which is a big jump in performance and functionality.

But old gliders mean old instruments, old trailers, more maintenance,
and old gelcoat constantly on your mind. And you'll sell it sooner.
Newer gliders are easier to fly, and safer especially if you can get
to the "safety cockpit" era.

(You can see I have lots of practice justifying outrageous gliding
expenses!)

John Cochrane BB

[Robert Gaines[_2_]]

To quote a good friend.
"What do you have if you have a bad trailer? You have nothing".
A sailplane that is difficult to assembe inside an unworkable trailer is
a bad package.
If the trailer sits outside and the tires are more than five years old,
get new tires.
GA





At 19:20 20 July 2009, Chris Reed wrote:
>rlovinggood wrote:
>> last, BUT NOT
>> LEAST, is condition of the trailer. Homebuilts are fine, if rigged
>> properly. But either a factory trailer or a homebuilt can be knuckle-
>> busting, glider-rash-giving monsters if not properly set up. Yea,
>> I've got experience with that :-)
>>
>I'd almost put the condition of the trailer first! Some years ago I
>bought into a Grob Astir CS (Grob 102 in the US I think) which had a
>very poor trailer. For the first year or so I could not use the glider
>properly because of fear of landing out.
>
>Once the trailer was replaced I had some great flights. So, either make
>sure you have a working trailer (fittings etc can be modified, but a
>barely roadworthy trailer is a deal breaker) or budget to replace the
>trailer. In the UK, $1,500 equivalent can buy you a working trailer
>which you can make pretty good with some effort - it might help the
>original poster if US pilots gave him the likely cost of a s/h trailer.
>
>Don't forget the price is for the complete outfit - glider + instruments

>+ trailer. At this price level the aircraft itself must be no more than
>$12k of the total $15k, if that helps when negotiating.
>
>
>
>

[Wayne Paul]

"K Smith" > wrote in message ...
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. I had a lot of fun flying a
> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. But there is that part inside me that
> thinks of a nice glass ship. Are there any glass ships that can be had for
> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. would probably already
> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
> April and had to have surgery. So here I sit all summer in beautifull
> Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>

I know you mentioned "glass ship"; however, you get a lot of "bang for the buck" with a metal Schreder design. Take a look at the "Trading Post" link on the Schreder Sailplane Designs website. (http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F

[[email protected]]

On Jul 20, 10:37*am, "K Smith" > wrote:
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. *I had a lot of fun flying a
> 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. *But there is that part inside me that
> thinks of a nice glass ship. *Are there any glass ships that can be had for
> under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. * would probably already
> bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at work in
> April and had to have surgery. *So here I sit all summer in beautifull
> Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.

There is a decent and CHEAP Woodstock for sale in TN right now. Yea,
it's a low performance homebuilt but they fly very nice, are easy to
rig, and did I mention CHEAP. It's a great design and mine has done
diamond goal AND a hilton qualifying 400K triangle. It's gotten me
home more times than not. Think of all the tows and retrieve gas you
can buy with the extra $13000!

[K Smith]

Let me say thanks to all the people who responded, I especially appreciated
the coments on the trailer condition, as I had not even thought of that. I
apologize to the people who e-mailed me with contact information, as due to
my shoulder surgery I have been off work most of this year and will be for
about another 6 weeks. So I will not be able to purchase a glider until
winter or spring. Assuming with this economy I have a job to go back to.

Thanks


"K Smith" > wrote in message
...
> O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> glider of my own in the not so distant future. I had a lot of fun flying
> a 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> getting one as the money flow allows. But there is that part inside me
> that thinks of a nice glass ship. Are there any glass ships that can be
> had for under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. would probably
> already bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
> work in April and had to have surgery. So here I sit all summer in
> beautifull Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[vontresc]

On Jul 21, 8:29*am, "K Smith" > wrote:
> Let me say thanks to all the people who responded, I especially appreciated
> the coments on the trailer condition, as I had not even thought of that. I
> apologize to the people who e-mailed me with contact information, as due to
> my shoulder surgery I have been off work most of this year and will be for
> about another 6 weeks. *So I will not be able to purchase a glider until
> winter or spring. *Assuming with this economy I have a job to go back to.
>
> Thanks
>
> "K Smith" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > O.K. now that I am getting back into gliding, I will want to purchase a
> > glider of my own in the not so distant future. *I had a lot of fun flying
> > a 1-26 when I was doing my solo training, and am thinking seriously about
> > getting one as the money flow allows. *But there is that part inside me
> > that thinks of a nice glass ship. *Are there any glass ships that can be
> > had for under say 15, and if so which ones would they be. * would probably
> > already bought a 1-26, but as luck would have it, I injured my shoulder at
> > work in April and had to have surgery. *So here I sit all summer in
> > beautifull Tennessee and can't fly.
>
> > Thanks for your thoughts on this.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Don't discount older ships non glass. Good deals can be had on older
Scheichers (Got my Ka-6 for a steal) and the like. there is a nice
looking SF-27 on W&W right now for 11k

Pete

[Barny]

One more "good trailer" vote. Two years ago I sold my Std Cirrus &
Eberle trailer and bought a $60K Cobra trailer that came with a very
nice glider for free.

[[email protected]]

> Don't discount older ships non glass. Good deals can be had on older
> Scheichers (Got my Ka-6 for a steal) and the like. there is a nice
> looking SF-27 on W&W right now for 11k
>
> Pete

Or an equally flyable Woodstock for $2K

[Uncle Fuzzy]

On Jul 21, 9:07*pm, wrote:
> > Don't discount older ships non glass. Good deals can be had on older
> > Scheichers (Got my Ka-6 for a steal) and the like. there is a nice
> > looking SF-27 on W&W right now for 11k
>
> > Pete
>
> Or an equally flyable Woodstock for *$2K

Where is it listed? Is the Woodstock okay for auto-tow??

Oh, and for the original Poster: Don't disregard some of the "Ugly
Ducklings" of the Glass Gliders. Speed Astir's offer a good "bang for
the buck" if you can squeeze into one.

[Tony Condon[_2_]]

I notice that there is a Cherokee II right at the top of Wings and Wheels.
Listed for 3000 dollars. If I was ready to spend the money, I would
probably buy it.


-Tony Condon
Cherokee II N373Y

[[email protected]]

On Jul 22, 5:45*pm, Tony Condon >
wrote:
> I notice that there is a Cherokee II right at the top of Wings and Wheels..
> Listed for 3000 dollars. *If I was ready to spend the money, I would
> probably buy it.
>
> -Tony Condon
> Cherokee II N373Y

And graft it to yours for a super span, "twin" Cherokee no doubt.

I suppose each outlanding would count as "2" outlandings right? I'd
never catch up...