VIP TFRs and protesters with weapons

[Jim Logajan]

Your ultralight and Cessna 152 aren't typically allowed within 10 nm of the
president's aircraft, for presumably security reasons, but this is allowed:

"Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_protesters_guns

(I wish the AOPA, EAA, and the rest of the alphabet soup of private
aviation organizations had the political clout the NRA had. My guess is it
comes down to being free with the donations and having a single narrow
focus. The aviation groups have no political focus.)

VIP TFRs never made a lot of security sense (to me, anyway.)

[Æslop]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> Your ultralight and Cessna 152 aren't typically allowed within 10 nm of
> the
> president's aircraft, for presumably security reasons, but this is
> allowed:
>
> "Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest"
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_protesters_guns
>
> (I wish the AOPA, EAA, and the rest of the alphabet soup of private
> aviation organizations had the political clout the NRA had. My guess is it
> comes down to being free with the donations and having a single narrow
> focus. The aviation groups have no political focus.)
>
> VIP TFRs never made a lot of security sense (to me, anyway.)

I imagine it quite difficult to specify certain sized aircraft in a TFR. How
would ATC know what size the aircraft is
if there is no requirement for all aircraft to contact ATC? If all aircraft
have to contact ATC, then all aircraft are subject to
the TFR. Is ATC supposed to sort out all the aircraft by size and police
them through the TFR area?

How many assasinations or attempts to assasinate were carried out by
individuals at a
protest openly carrying weapons? I believe the answer to hover around 0.
They were gun rights activists.
The people most in danger were probably the people carrying the guns.

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
"Æslop" > wrote:

> How many assasinations or attempts to assasinate were carried out by
> individuals at a
> protest openly carrying weapons? I believe the answer to hover around 0.

And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Matt Barrow[_8_]]

"Mike Ash" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Fslop" > wrote:
>
>> How many assasinations or attempts to assasinate were carried out by
>> individuals at a
>> protest openly carrying weapons? I believe the answer to hover around 0.

Well, Archduke Ferdinand, which kicked off World War I, in 1914.

Then there was George Wallace in 1968, and that mob guy back in the 70's.

Then the attempt on Jerry Ford.

So that's four.

But none of these weren't protests.

And none were carryig openly.

And open carry is allowed in most states, including the ones were thest
incidents occured.


> And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?

Four attempts - 3000 dead.

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
"Matt Barrow" > wrote:

> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>
> Four attempts - 3000 dead.

Those were not assassination attempts.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Matt Barrow[_8_]]

"Mike Ash" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Matt Barrow" > wrote:
>
>> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>>
>> Four attempts - 3000 dead.
>
> Those were not assassination attempts.

And the two incidents were not anywhere that Obeyme was near. :~)

[Matt Barrow[_8_]]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Matt Barrow" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>>>
>>> Four attempts - 3000 dead.
>>
>> Those were not assassination attempts.
>
> And the two incidents were not anywhere that Obeyme was near. :~)
Oh, and they weren't protesters, either.

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
"Matt Barrow" > wrote:

> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Fslop" > wrote:
> >
> >> How many assasinations or attempts to assasinate were carried out by
> >> individuals at a
> >> protest openly carrying weapons? I believe the answer to hover around 0.
>
> Well, Archduke Ferdinand, which kicked off World War I, in 1914.
>
> Then there was George Wallace in 1968, and that mob guy back in the 70's.
>
> Then the attempt on Jerry Ford.
>
> So that's four.
>
> But none of these weren't protests.
>
> And none were carryig openly.
>
> And open carry is allowed in most states, including the ones were thest
> incidents occured.
>
>
> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>
> Four attempts - 3000 dead.

Five, but the Cessna 150 missed. Took out a hedge and a magnolia tree.
Only the pilot died. (1994).

[Æslop]

"Mike Ash" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Æslop" > wrote:

> And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?

Non sequitir. This does not refute anything I said nor respond to any
question asked.

But it has been established that people will fly aircraft in a suicidal
fashion to kill other people.

[Æslop]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Fslop" > wrote:

> Well, Archduke Ferdinand, which kicked off World War I, in 1914.
>
> Then there was George Wallace in 1968, and that mob guy back in the 70's.
>
> Then the attempt on Jerry Ford.
>
> So that's four.
>
> But none of these weren't protests.

I think you mean "none of these WERE protests"

> And none were carryig openly.

So, basically what I said. These protesters were a non-threat.

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
"Æslop" > wrote:

> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Æslop" > wrote:
>
> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>
> Non sequitir. This does not refute anything I said nor respond to any
> question asked.
>
> But it has been established that people will fly aircraft in a suicidal
> fashion to kill other people.

Actually since you are advocating for Presidential TFRs as a safety
measure, and also advocating for the right to carry guns at such
protests, it is absolutely relevant to what you said.

It has been established that people will fly aircraft in a suicidal
fashion to kill other people. It has also been established that people
will carry guns with the intent of killing other people. The latter
happens to be WAY more common. Your assertion that it's OK to allow guns
because nobody's ever tried to assassinate a President with an
openly-carried gun is just as meaningless as my assertion that nobody's
ever tried to assassinate a President with an airplane.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Æslop]

"Mike Ash" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Æslop" > wrote:
>
>> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Æslop" > wrote:
>>
>> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>>
>> Non sequitir. This does not refute anything I said nor respond to any
>> question asked.
>>
>> But it has been established that people will fly aircraft in a suicidal
>> fashion to kill other people.
>
> Actually since you are advocating for Presidential TFRs as a safety
> measure, and also advocating for the right to carry guns at such
> protests, it is absolutely relevant to what you said.

Actually, no. The OP was wondering why he was not allowed to fly his
ultralight or
c152 into a TFR. I was postulating on the difficulty and impracticality of
separating
out his 2 aircraft from the other, more threatening types. I never said a
VIP TFR was good or bad.

Nor do I advocate people carrying weapons at protests (specifically). And,
though I do advocate
people carrying weapons, I never said that in my post. I was simply alluding
to the fact that
law abiding people assembling at a protest carrying weapons openly are a
pretty damn low risk.
The folks actually out to do harm will have their Glocks in their panties
:-)
are a far threat

[Richard[_11_]]

On Aug 18, 3:24*pm, Mike Ash > wrote:
> In article >,
> *"Matt Barrow" > wrote:
>
> > "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>
> > Four attempts - 3000 dead.
>
> Those were not assassination attempts.
>
> --
> Mike Ash
> Radio Free Earth
> Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Bull****. Moron.
The definition of "assassination" varies among sources. The American
Heritage Dictionary defines "to assassinate" thus:

... to murder [a prominent person] by surprise attack, as for
political reasons;[6]

however, the Oxford English Dictionary's definition is:

The action of assassinating; the taking the life of any one by
treacherous violence, esp. by a hired emissary, or one who has taken
upon him to execute the deed.[7]

[Richard[_11_]]

On Aug 19, 11:57*pm, "Æslop" > wrote:
> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > In article >,
> > "Æslop" > wrote:
>
> >> "Mike Ash" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Æslop" > wrote:
>
> >> > And what is the number of attempts that were carried out by airplane?
>
> >> Non sequitir. This does not refute anything I said nor respond to any
> >> question asked.
>
> >> But it has been established that people will fly aircraft in a suicidal
> >> fashion to kill other people.
>
> > Actually since you are advocating for Presidential TFRs as a safety
> > measure, and also advocating for the right to carry guns at such
> > protests, it is absolutely relevant to what you said.
>
> Actually, no. The OP was wondering why he was not allowed to fly his
> ultralight or
> c152 into a TFR. I was postulating on the difficulty and impracticality of
> separating
> out his 2 aircraft from the other, more threatening types. I never said a
> VIP TFR was good or bad.
>
> Nor do I advocate people carrying weapons at protests (specifically). And,
> though I do advocate
> people carrying weapons, I never said that in my post. I was simply alluding
> to the fact that
> law abiding people assembling at a protest carrying weapons openly are a
> pretty damn low risk.
> The folks actually out to do harm will have their Glocks in their panties
> :-)
> are a far threat

<g>

"Keep your enemies close; keep your Glock 27 closer".