Once again, anybody know of a place I can get it-VHS or DVD??

TIA
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Pechs,

I got mine the same way you are trying.
In my case, someone from rec.aviation.military happened to see my post and
cloned his VHS version and sent me a copy. I think he had an original, and
the clone is pretty good. I can try to clone mine if you can't find
anything better.
But suggest you post to rec.aviation.military - even blue-suiters like that
program.

Frank

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Once again, anybody know of a place I can get it-VHS or DVD??
>
> TIA
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

I have an original Beta version......... but no beta viewer. I'd sure
like to have a DVD if anyone runs across one. JD


"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Once again, anybody know of a place I can get it-VHS or DVD??
>
> TIA
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> Once again, anybody know of a place I can get it-VHS or DVD??
>
> TIA
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

Give the Blues a call PC, or even better yet, contact the alumni association
and inquire. I know the information is in the files someplace
is the last email I have on them if it helps any.
Frank Herbert did the book with Ballantine, and Paul Marlow produced and
directed the movie. (Gardner-Marlow-Maes) It was Harley Hall's guys , and
Skip Umstead was involved. Of course they're gone. The rest I don't know
about; O'Mara, Maslowski, Ernie Christensen, Shoemaker, Beardsley and
Switzer. Don't know who's still out there but the allum will put you in
touch. I'm sure somebody is going to have a handle on it that you can grab.
Good luck,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Let's see.. "Phantom", (BOTH VERSIONS!), I recognise, Buckeye I recogise, (BUT
COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of pahane
are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"?
..

(DBurch7672) wrote:

> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>
>Let's see.. "Phantom", (BOTH VERSIONS!), I recognise, Buckeye I recogise, (BUT
>COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of pahane
>are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"?

If you recognize two versions of the Phantom, how is it that you don't
recognize the contemporary of one of them, Heinemann's Hot Rod, AKA
Scooter, AKA [and nee] the A4D, later renomenclatured into the A-4?

I'll leave the Turkey and Viper to others. *BUT*. I sincerely hope
you have a broadband connection. You'll need it to download The Saga
of the Combat Buckeye. ;->

[TINS. There I was at 20,000 feet flat on my back, and ...]
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]

On 08 Jan 2004 22:47:58 GMT, (DBurch7672) wrote:

> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
>
>Let's see.. "Phantom", (BOTH VERSIONS!), I recognise, Buckeye I recogise, (BUT
>COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of pahane
>are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"?
>.
Anyone who had flown military trainers will understand the "combat
Buckeye" metaphor. Quite often keeping body and soul together in the
training environment is more difficult than when the enemy is more
clearly defined.

As for Turkey, that's an F-14 Tomcat. Viper, we should recognize as
F-16 (in Navy livery in Top Gun) and Scooter, would be an A-4.

Even a AF coot like moi can see that stuff.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Ed.

You are right on and if you want to get even more accurate, the Greek AF
used (still may) the T-2 as an attack platform.

We used TPS T-2s for Spin and once in awhile to let off some steam, ACM
platforms.

Jake

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On 08 Jan 2004 22:47:58 GMT, (DBurch7672) wrote:
>
> > Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer
> >
> >Let's see.. "Phantom", (BOTH VERSIONS!), I recognise, Buckeye I recogise,
(BUT
> >COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of
pahane
> >are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"?
> >.
> Anyone who had flown military trainers will understand the "combat
> Buckeye" metaphor. Quite often keeping body and soul together in the
> training environment is more difficult than when the enemy is more
> clearly defined.
>
> As for Turkey, that's an F-14 Tomcat. Viper, we should recognize as
> F-16 (in Navy livery in Top Gun) and Scooter, would be an A-4.
>
> Even a AF coot like moi can see that stuff.
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> Smithsonian Institution Press
> ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:46:29 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
> wrote:

> Ed.
>
> You are right on and if you want to get even more accurate, the Greek AF
> used (still may) the T-2 as an attack platform.
>
> We used TPS T-2s for Spin and once in awhile to let off some steam, ACM
> platforms.

The USN TPS T-2s, with instructor pilots and crews, make the trek out
to the USAF TPS twice a year to teach the spin syllabus there, too. I
think that the USAF TPS used to use the A-37s for the spin syllabus
before the USN TPS started coming out, but I'm not sure; I know we,
Dryden, spun the T-37, mostly for .practice.

When I was down at TPS running around on the ramp for my flight in the
VISTA F-16, the T-2s were there for this spin training and, in an
amazing coincidence, one of the instructors was one of the few pilots
I knew at Pax, Ricardo. We had a nice visit and I got to look inside
the T-2 after we couldn't start the VISTA FCS because its battery was
dead. The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16
cockpit on fire a day or two later, though.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

DBurch-<< (BUT
COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of pahane
are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"? >><BR><BR>

'Combat Buckeye', since we flew them in VF-126, a joke. Turkey is the F-14, a
bigger turkey there never was, the Viper the USN version of the F-16 Falcon.
'N' model, made for the adversary squadrons and Topgun. The baby of Duke
Cunningham when he was CO. Scooter was the A-4, also known by us as the
loveable 'Dog', Had E, F, F+ and M models.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Ed-<< Viper, we should recognize as
F-16 (in Navy livery in Top Gun) >><BR><BR>

Please, not just the guys seeking publicity at TopPutz. VF-126, VF-43 and VF-45
owned the majority of the F-16N. Top Pooch had 8, the rest of us had 6, the
only Squadron not having a two seater was VF-126.

Get really tired when I talk about being in an adversary squadrion and the most
common question is 'ohhh, you were in TopGun"...yikes NOT TOP GOON....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

In article >, Pechs1
> wrote:

> DBurch-<< (BUT
> COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of pahane
> are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"? >><BR><BR>
>
> 'Combat Buckeye', since we flew them in VF-126, a joke. Turkey is the F-14, a
> bigger turkey there never was, the Viper the USN version of the F-16 Falcon.
> 'N' model, made for the adversary squadrons and Topgun. The baby of Duke
> Cunningham when he was CO. Scooter was the A-4, also known by us as the
> loveable 'Dog', Had E, F, F+ and M models.
>
>
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

In VT-10 the T-2 was the All Weather Radial Interceptor!
Pusg

>The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16 cockpit on fire a
day or two later, though.

A story we'd like you to share with us if you could.

--
Mike Kanze

"Sit by the homely girl, you'll look better by comparison."

- Debra Maffett, Miss America 1983


"Mary Shafer" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:46:29 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
> > wrote:
>
> > Ed.
> >
> > You are right on and if you want to get even more accurate, the Greek AF
> > used (still may) the T-2 as an attack platform.
> >
> > We used TPS T-2s for Spin and once in awhile to let off some steam, ACM
> > platforms.
>
> The USN TPS T-2s, with instructor pilots and crews, make the trek out
> to the USAF TPS twice a year to teach the spin syllabus there, too. I
> think that the USAF TPS used to use the A-37s for the spin syllabus
> before the USN TPS started coming out, but I'm not sure; I know we,
> Dryden, spun the T-37, mostly for .practice.
>
> When I was down at TPS running around on the ramp for my flight in the
> VISTA F-16, the T-2s were there for this spin training and, in an
> amazing coincidence, one of the instructors was one of the few pilots
> I knew at Pax, Ricardo. We had a nice visit and I got to look inside
> the T-2 after we couldn't start the VISTA FCS because its battery was
> dead. The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16
> cockpit on fire a day or two later, though.
>
> Mary
>
> --
> Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
>

I wonder how a Tweet would do in "combat" with a Buckeye? Anyone ever see
these two go mano a mano?

Advantage Buckeye - it at least has a hook it can use for close quarter combat.

v/r
Gordon
PS, I am aware of the combat records of A-37s, but I mean the trainers

Happy New Year Mary!

I was in and out of Edwards so fast that I never got time to give you a
ring.

I almost misread your comment bout A37's. I am either getting lazy eye or
just old. I thought it said T-37s. Yikes!

Did you run into Gallager at TPS? He use to get a real hard time from
students when they found out who his bother was.

Warmest Regards!
Jake

"Mary Shafer" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:46:29 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
> > wrote:
>
> > Ed.
> >
> > You are right on and if you want to get even more accurate, the Greek AF
> > used (still may) the T-2 as an attack platform.
> >
> > We used TPS T-2s for Spin and once in awhile to let off some steam, ACM
> > platforms.
>
> The USN TPS T-2s, with instructor pilots and crews, make the trek out
> to the USAF TPS twice a year to teach the spin syllabus there, too. I
> think that the USAF TPS used to use the A-37s for the spin syllabus
> before the USN TPS started coming out, but I'm not sure; I know we,
> Dryden, spun the T-37, mostly for .practice.
>
> When I was down at TPS running around on the ramp for my flight in the
> VISTA F-16, the T-2s were there for this spin training and, in an
> amazing coincidence, one of the instructors was one of the few pilots
> I knew at Pax, Ricardo. We had a nice visit and I got to look inside
> the T-2 after we couldn't start the VISTA FCS because its battery was
> dead. The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16
> cockpit on fire a day or two later, though.
>
> Mary
>
> --
> Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
>

Pechs,

A lot of the AF pukes call their F-16 Vipers. Mostly the ANG and Reserve.

The F-16N was a hoot. No weight. I had the honor of delivering one of them
to the Blackbirds in Key West. I don't think any of the of N's were not
bent and broken. :-)

As for the T-2, I still enjoy it. Roomy and student forgiving. With them
all being retired, I would love to get a hold of one for the airshow
circuit. (Tried with several friends to get a TA4J that had civil registry
but was beat to the punch. We never did find out who bought it. Boeing
supposedly have several of them in civilian registry.)

What I would really like to know what happened to Lockmarts MB339 (Their
JPATS entry) Word was a few years back that Paty Wagstaff was trying to put
together a deal to buy it but it fell though. Lockmart sold it and all
their spares. It was civil registered as experimental with no moratorium
restrictions.

Happy New Years

Jake


"Pechs1" > wrote in message
...
> DBurch-<< (BUT
> COMBAT? The Buckeye is a Navy TRAINER, isn't it?), but what types of
pahane
> are/were the "Turkey", "Viper" and "Scooter"? >><BR><BR>
>
> 'Combat Buckeye', since we flew them in VF-126, a joke. Turkey is the
F-14, a
> bigger turkey there never was, the Viper the USN version of the F-16
Falcon.
> 'N' model, made for the adversary squadrons and Topgun. The baby of Duke
> Cunningham when he was CO. Scooter was the A-4, also known by us as the
> loveable 'Dog', Had E, F, F+ and M models.
>
>
> P. C. Chisholm
> CDR, USN(ret.)
> Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye
Phlyer

"In VT-10 the T-2 was the All Weather Radial Interceptor!
Pusg"

Still is but with VT-86

Jake

"Jake Donovan" > wrote in message
news:yTmLb.70384$hf1.41645@lakeread06...
> Ed.
>
> You are right on and if you want to get even more accurate, the Greek AF
> used (still may) the T-2 as an attack platform.
>
> We used TPS T-2s for Spin and once in awhile to let off some steam, ACM
> platforms.
>
> Jake


Ah yes, the old T2 3 axis coupled entry!! God, that was fun.
TPS was a great bunch with Tex Birdwell, Paul Nafziger, Tom Flannery, and
Admiral Brown down there. We stole the bull off the roof at the Belvedere
across from the main gate one night after a bit of "attitude adjustment".
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

> 'Combat Buckeye', since we flew them in VF-126, a joke.

AKA the "Trusty Tubbyjet." We're retiring them as Intermediate Strike
trainers this summer. Last class is pretty much through instruments ...
Fam, Form, Guns, and FCLP to go. We're running a TPS class now to get their
NATOPS qual before checking in up at Pax River. Interesting group with
several foreign cross-training guys. I had a Dutch F-16 driver for his
first cockpit intro EP hop. Great OCF airplane, but I suspect they're
limiting the number of three-axis departures per hop to stretch the service
life. A far cry from my VF-126 hop when Farkle and I did 3 lomcevak's for
dessert ... the last with a healthy negative G spike.

We tried out the T-2 in ACM. Pushed the A-4 all around the sky. T-2 versus
T-37 would be no sweat. Two J-85's versus two J-69's ... a far better
energy package. Now the A-37 ...

R / John

In article >,
(Krztalizer) writes:
> I wonder how a Tweet would do in "combat" with a Buckeye? Anyone ever see
> these two go mano a mano?
>
> Advantage Buckeye - it at least has a hook it can use for close quarter combat.

Haven't seen a T-37/T-2 matchup, but, back in the '70s, I did see a
T-2 and a B-57 go at it up in Yankee 1. (Low Level Training Route in
the White Mountains in New England.) It mostly consisted of the T-2
trying to shake the Iron Cranberry off of its tail. B-57s can _turn_!

I don't know whose T-2 it was - I'd expect it was fron NAS Brunswick,
or NAS South Weymouth, but occasionally Raytheon or Sanders would have
one bailed ot them - The B-57 was from the VT ANG. They were a DSES
(Defense Systems Evaluation Squadron) at the time. The airplane was
in the 1950's Night Intruder gloss Black finish - downright predatory
looking - sort of like Darth Vader chasing Luke Skywalker.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Allen-<< In VT-10 the T-2 was the All Weather Radial Interceptor! >><BR><BR>

'Mississippi Mig' when at Meridian.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Jake-<< With them
all being retired, I would love to get a hold of one for the airshow
circuit. >><BR><BR>

No kidding. I think one, w/o wing tanks, some canopy mods, lose the POS
electircal system, would make a great air racer.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 09 Jan 2004 22:31:10 GMT, (Krztalizer) wrote:

>I wonder how a Tweet would do in "combat" with a Buckeye? Anyone ever see
>these two go mano a mano?
>
>Advantage Buckeye - it at least has a hook it can use for close quarter combat.

Well, the Tweet is decidedly lacking in weapons, so the hook is
probably viable. But if we're just talking maneuverability, I wouldn't
discount the Cessna. That big square wing will flat generate some
turn. The problem would largely be in excess power--ol' P-sub-s.

Once slow, it would be a question of who could keep flying. It would
definitely be a low-speed fight and except for first moves, largely
horizontal. Stall speed of the Tweet, about 72 knots. The wiley Tweet
driver should probably pull the spoiler circuit breaker (those little
panels on the top of the engine intakes that disrupt airflow over the
tail to give stall warning buffet)--that would let you milk another
four or five knots slower. Then, judicious use of flaps to get a bit
more turn rate at yet lower speed.....

Now, if we went with AT-37 with those non-afterburning J85s to replace
the J-69s, then it's no question the Tweet goes vertical and has the
Buckeye for lunch.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Pechs1 wrote:
> Jake-<< With them
> all being retired, I would love to get a hold of one for the airshow
> circuit. >><BR><BR>
>
> No kidding. I think one, w/o wing tanks, some canopy mods, lose the POS
> electircal system, would make a great air racer.

There's at least one civvy-owned Thunder Guppy flying, as I recall from
an article in the EAA's Sport Aviation. Owned by a doctor.

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote...
>
> Once slow, it would be a question of who could keep flying. It would
> definitely be a low-speed fight and except for first moves, largely
> horizontal. Stall speed of the Tweet, about 72 knots. The wiley Tweet
> driver should probably pull the spoiler circuit breaker (those little
> panels on the top of the engine intakes that disrupt airflow over the
> tail to give stall warning buffet)--that would let you milk another
> four or five knots slower. Then, judicious use of flaps to get a bit
> more turn rate at yet lower speed.....

It's been a while since I flew the Buckeye (and never flew the Tweet), but IIRC
the light-weight stall speed was around 80 knots with flaps down. One problem
would be that the T-2 had a 3-position flap lever (Up, 1/2, Full), so "milking"
the flaps down (a great slow-speed tactic in the A-4) would not be possible.

OTOH, the Buckeye's relative excess power would likely allow it to use the
vertical at near-Tweet speeds, allowing it to keep up (or back) with the Tweet.

OTOOH, if the T-2 had its guns installed, it would trade weight and
maneuverability for actual weapons! :-)

As you say, it would be an interesting fight!


> Now, if we went with AT-37 with those non-afterburning J85s to replace
> the J-69s, then it's no question the Tweet goes vertical and has the
> Buckeye for lunch.

Yeah... same engines as the T-2C; much smaller airframe!

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 19:28:54 -0600, "Jake Donovan"
> wrote:

> I was in and out of Edwards so fast that I never got time to give you a
> ring.

I figured as much. You should have been coming down here to Palm
Desert, though. It was so cold in Lancaster at Christmas that we came
back a day early just to warm up. Not that there's much action here
except for the Blues at El Centro, though.

We're under the departure path for Bermuda Dunes and there's a
bugsmasher droning overhear right now. We've got the windows open,
it's so nice. I think it's going to be in the low 80s, with a very
slight breeze. Perfectly clear and good flying weather, I suppose.
When I hear them overhead in the summer I start thinking about density
altitude. Those 118-degF days kind of lift the airport up from sea
level.

> I almost misread your comment bout A37's. I am either getting lazy eye or
> just old. I thought it said T-37s. Yikes!

We had a T-37 at Dryden (I wrote my first paper about it, in fact) and
I thought for years that so did AFFTC. It must have taken me two or
three years to discover that their pretty white A-37s weren't Tweety
Birds.

Our Tweet was spun in, in about 1983, I think. I saw the crash site
photos and the wreckage was just classic, really characteristic of an
airplane that came down flat, in planform.

> Did you run into Gallager at TPS? He use to get a real hard time from
> students when they found out who his bother was.

I've met him and we've chatted a few times. His brother joined him at
the Friday luncheon one year and all the rest of us got to listen to
everyone in the area laughing continuously. His brother didn't bring
a watermelon or anything, though.

Going to SETP can be kind of discouraging when I see all these pilots
and FTEs that I met as captains or lieutenants when they were students
at the TPSs wearing eagles and stars. Then a couple years later and
they're all with contractors or airlines, it seems. Time keeps
marching on, I guess.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

John R Weiss wrote:
> "Ed Rasimus" > wrote...
>
> As you say, it would be an interesting fight!

And when you were done, having waxed the tweet all day, you could stand
next to it and urinate into it's cockpit.

Could you imagine an A-4 and a Tweet parked next to each other? They'd
have different altimeter settings.

In article >, wrote:

> The T-2 guys weren't around when I tried to set the F-16
> cockpit on fire a day or two later, though.
>

I don't remember hearing this one, Mary.
Care to elucidate?

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

An old thread but...

....many years ago, 'twas a manhood issue between Navy and Air Force PUIs at
happy hours all over the southwest. Your IP may have been having your ass
over the IC but you were "somebody" next to the Tweet at the hold-short --
particularly if you were in a TA-4. ;)

"nafod40" > wrote in message
...
> John R Weiss wrote:
> > "Ed Rasimus" > wrote...
> >
> > As you say, it would be an interesting fight!
>
> And when you were done, having waxed the tweet all day, you could stand
> next to it and urinate into it's cockpit.
>
> Could you imagine an A-4 and a Tweet parked next to each other? They'd
> have different altimeter settings.
>