Tarver Engineering
July 15th 03, 06:03 PM
"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> rthlink.net...
> >
> > "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I ran into quite a few guys who flew P-39's. The all said the same
> thing. It
> > > had dangerous flat spin characteristics. . Benig bombardier I asked,
> "what the
> > > hell is .that?" They explained. I don't remember what they said so I
> can't
> > > explain it here. But I am sure guys like Ed and Dudley can.
> >
> > Flat spins are an aft cg scenario for the P39. Generally, in an airplane
> > with positive stability , a flat spin has to be entered deliberately and
> > HELD with power and aileron; the exact amounts of each differ with each
> type
> > spun flat. The P39, had a problem with aft cg movement along a very
narrow
> > in range parameter with ammunition expenditure. If the airplane exceeded
> > critical angle of attack when the ammo cans were at a certain level, the
> > departure could easily cause an out of envelope spin mode that could go
> > flatter as autorational velocities and moments of inertia changed as the
> > spin progressed into ever increasing yaw rates.
>
> Dudley, do you mean to say that the center of gravity is usually designed
> such that the airplane avoids a tail slide in a stall? In other words,
the
> nose rolls over and airspeed increases?
>
> > Departure in a P39 while in this configuration was a very difficult
thing
> to
> > handle. Pilots like Tex Johnston had little trouble with recoveries
under
> > controlled conditions, but a low time pilot on operational flying could
> find
> > himself in a world of hurt if getting caught this way. It usually
happened
> > if the airplane went defensive and turning after an initial extended
> firing
> > run air to air. If engaged and going defensive, as the speed bled due to
> > radial g and the angle of attack increased, a departure was imminent if
> you
> > went deep enough into the turn, especially if the turn was being forced
> down
> > by an aircraft with a lighter WS and lower corner. You could easily be
> > pulled into departure city in a situation like that, and this is indeed
> what
> > nailed a lot of 39 drivers. If you departed and went flat in this
> airplane,
> > recovery was NOT where the amateurs should be!!!
>
> Like being sucked into a black hole?
>
> > I should say also that most of the 39 pilots I have talked to through
the
> > years liked the airplane after flying it for a protracted period...and
> that
> > includes Yeager! The trick was to fly it right the first time through to
> the
> > last time....and I could say THAT about every airplane I've ever flown
at
> > least!! :-)))
>
> All the thrills of your own airplane out to kill you and people shooting
at
> you too!
>
> jpt
>
>
...
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> rthlink.net...
> >
> > "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I ran into quite a few guys who flew P-39's. The all said the same
> thing. It
> > > had dangerous flat spin characteristics. . Benig bombardier I asked,
> "what the
> > > hell is .that?" They explained. I don't remember what they said so I
> can't
> > > explain it here. But I am sure guys like Ed and Dudley can.
> >
> > Flat spins are an aft cg scenario for the P39. Generally, in an airplane
> > with positive stability , a flat spin has to be entered deliberately and
> > HELD with power and aileron; the exact amounts of each differ with each
> type
> > spun flat. The P39, had a problem with aft cg movement along a very
narrow
> > in range parameter with ammunition expenditure. If the airplane exceeded
> > critical angle of attack when the ammo cans were at a certain level, the
> > departure could easily cause an out of envelope spin mode that could go
> > flatter as autorational velocities and moments of inertia changed as the
> > spin progressed into ever increasing yaw rates.
>
> Dudley, do you mean to say that the center of gravity is usually designed
> such that the airplane avoids a tail slide in a stall? In other words,
the
> nose rolls over and airspeed increases?
>
> > Departure in a P39 while in this configuration was a very difficult
thing
> to
> > handle. Pilots like Tex Johnston had little trouble with recoveries
under
> > controlled conditions, but a low time pilot on operational flying could
> find
> > himself in a world of hurt if getting caught this way. It usually
happened
> > if the airplane went defensive and turning after an initial extended
> firing
> > run air to air. If engaged and going defensive, as the speed bled due to
> > radial g and the angle of attack increased, a departure was imminent if
> you
> > went deep enough into the turn, especially if the turn was being forced
> down
> > by an aircraft with a lighter WS and lower corner. You could easily be
> > pulled into departure city in a situation like that, and this is indeed
> what
> > nailed a lot of 39 drivers. If you departed and went flat in this
> airplane,
> > recovery was NOT where the amateurs should be!!!
>
> Like being sucked into a black hole?
>
> > I should say also that most of the 39 pilots I have talked to through
the
> > years liked the airplane after flying it for a protracted period...and
> that
> > includes Yeager! The trick was to fly it right the first time through to
> the
> > last time....and I could say THAT about every airplane I've ever flown
at
> > least!! :-)))
>
> All the thrills of your own airplane out to kill you and people shooting
at
> you too!
>
> jpt
>
>