On 11/11/04 7:38 AM, in article , "Tom
Cooper" wrote:


Now, it's not so that I'm "believing rumours over SPEAR message": I haven't
got any corresponding documents released.

My remark was in regards to the NAVOPINTCEN SUITLAND MD message 102038Z Apr
88 which is NOT mentioning this battle from 18 March 1988, even if it
mentions a number of other, smaller engagements. If you don't mind me
repeating the content of paragraph 5:

THE IRANIAN AIR FORCE WENT FOR OVER A YEAR FROM OCT 86 TO NOV 87 WITH OUT A
DETECTED AIR-AIR MISSILE FIRING. SUDDENLY IN NOVEMBER 87 F-4'S FROM BUSHEHR
ENGAGED IRAQI AIRCRAFT NORTH OF BANDAR KHOMEYNI WITH MULTIPLE AAM'S. IN
EARLY FEB 88 AN IRIAF F-14 APPARENTLY DOWNED AN F-1 SE OF FARSI ISLAND AND
ANOTHER F-14 FIRED AT TWO TARGETS 3 HOURS LATER. SINCE THEN BOTH F-4 AND
F-14 AIRCRAFT HAVE SHOWN AN INCREASED AGGRESSIVENESS AND WILLINGNESS TO
EMPLOY AAMS. MOST RECENTLY IN MID-MARCH AN F-14 DOWNED AN F-1 DURING AN
ATTACK ON KHARG ISLAND IN AND AN F-14 MAY HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ENGAGE A C-601
LAUCNHED FROM A H-6D. A BANDAR ABBAS F-4 POSSIBLY LAUNCHED AN AAM AGAINST
TWO F-1'S RTB AFTER A RAID ON LAVAN ISLAND IN EARLY APRIL.


The key word here is "DETECTED."

As you can see, they mention a number of different engagements. The problem
is, however, they don't mention a number of other engagements.

For example, the only day in "early Feb 88" on which F-14s engaged Mirage
F.1s in two different engagements over the Persian Gulf was 9th of February.
That, however, is not a date I'd describe as "early February".


Perhaps they weren't "DETECTED."

Besides, why is this report not mentioning air battles that occurred over
the Gulf on 2nd and 5th February? IMHO, this would really be "early Feb
88"...This is simply making me unsure if March 19th can be considered as
"mid-March".


You're expecting a comprehensive report with historical accuracy. What
you're reading though is an intelligence report where SPEAR is reporting
only on the verifiable incidents a short time later without the benefit of
your historical sources. Make sense?

The document isn't inaccurate. It's probably just incomplete.

If yes, there is no claim for downing of any IrAF Mirage F.1EQ known in
IRIAF on this date (not only in their F-14-, but also in F-4- or F-5
communities). One was shot down by Tomcats on 18th March (there are photos
of wreckage, name of captured IrAF pilot and corresponding narrative from
IRIAF pilot), but that was over central Iran, not over Khark. During the
strike on 19th March the IrAF Mirage units are not known to have suffered
any losses.

Re. "conspiracy": I wouldn't say there is a consipiracy. I'd only say that I
simply can't understand why should State Dept. keep USN documents back. Can
you say what could be a reason?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.

--Woody