"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
OK, I give up. "Garmin" never said WAAS would be a software upgrade, but
their engineers and marketing folks sure did (at least to me...) Perhaps
without "corporate approval"??? Or they were out specifically to get ME!!!

They "thought" that it would be a software upgrade but, since the TSO wasn't
out, they couldn't know for sure. If they knew that the TSO was going to
require five updates per second, nobody would have said that it would only
take a software upgrade.


But why would you move a corporate HQ to the Caymans if it WASN'T for the
tax haven?

There is a reason but it wasn't the avoidance of coporate income tax. I
forget what the rational was.


Isn't that kind of like having a Swiss Bank Account for reasons OTHER than
money laundering and/or hiding cash?

Don't know.


Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but I am willing to admit I could be
wrong... Can't imagine how Anderson and all the other "Big 6" made tons of
money in the 90s using offshore schemes if it weren't to reduce tax
liabilities...

Well look at the taxes that they pay. Their US earnings are fully taxed.

Check out their operating margins for the MRQ. Pretty astounding, if Yahoo
financials have it right. The G1000 is a remarkable piece of kit, and as a
high-margin OEM product, that should do Garmin quite well. I hope
Bendix/King gets their collective heads out of their ass and hires away
UPSAT's engineers so we can once again have some real competition in the
GA
market.


The company's margins have always been high, mostly because they design more
desirable products than the competition. Compare the tactile "feel" of the
buttons used on Garmin's audio panel with King's buttons. The Garmin's
buttons just feel better. Little things like that add up.

It is important to remember that Garmin IS the young inovative company,
without them, King would still be trying to sell us KX155s and KLN 92s and
there would be no alternative.

Mike
MU-2



"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
First off Garmin never said that WAAS would be a software upgrade, they
said
that they "thought" that it would be. The 430/530 could probably easily
be
software upgraded to WAAS but it wouldn't be a 146 box. That is an FAA
problem, not a Garmin problem.

Garmin's US earnings are fully taxed as are their Taiwan earnings. I
have
forgotten what the reason for incorporation in the Caymans was but it
doesn't affect the company's income taxes.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
I didn't mean to infer Garmin should pull out all stops to provide 146
capability to the 430/530. But the fact of the matter is, and I can
only
speak for myself on this, part of my purchasing decision was based
upon
Garmin's statements. I just believe they should live up to their own
marketing hype. Granted, LNAV/VNAV approaches are few and far between
right
now, but there are more published every day. I typically fly into and
out
of
airfields that do not have precision approaches, and are fortunate to
have
a
GPS overlay of an NDB approach. LNAV/VNAV is a capability I am really
looking forward to using.

Garmin was founded and headquartered in Olathe, KS until a
reorganization
in
1999 or 2000, I believe. That moved their HQ to the Caymans (tax
haven)
and
became the "Britainized" Garmin LTD. The Taiwan facility is just a fab
shop,
if my research is correct principally for lower margin consumer
electronics
(iQue, Rhino, eTrex...)

Believe me, I have no beef with Garmin, other than my resentment of
Corporate tax havens. These guys are sharp businessmen, and vicious
competitors. My concern is, and will remain with their commitment to
the
markets that got them where they are now.

Just take a look at what is happening with pharma after "merger
mania".
The
organizations have gotten so big, innovation and competition have died
off
in many market sectors. Bigger is not always better.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in
message
...
I own Garmin products, but I also know they are vicious in
protecting
their
pricing and controlling distribution (which is why I am still
suspect
of
their UPSAT purchase.) You are correct, that autos represent the
biggest
market and lowest margins, but the most successful technologies
are
the
ones
that can generate high volume sales (witness Wi-Fi or the old VHS
over
Beta...) GPS did not become ubiquitous until "cheap" solutions
came
to
market. Garmin also incorporated in the Cayman's as a tax haven.
Perfectly
legal, but considering the bulk of their operations are in the US,
a
tad
on
the sleazy side for my taste. Aerospace is a great market for
Garmin,
because it is niche. The 35 "mouse" was way overpriced for many
years
until
others came to the market, they really milked that one...


Garmin is more of a Taiwanese company than a US one.


Don't get me wrong, the 430/530 are still amazing for what they
do.
I
am
just concerned that they overpromised continued support of these
products.
When making my UPSAT vs Garmin decision a few years back, my
discussions
with Garmin engineers "suggested" Garmin had a software solution
for
a
WAAS
upgrade. Now we know it is a major hardware upgrade, and really
don't
know
when it will be ready (or if it will ever pass the TSO...) I know
from
discussing from individuals working in engineering that most of
their
resources and talent are pushing the G1000. Upgrading the 430/530
may
be
on
the back burner for a while since they have bet their aerospace
future
on
the G1000 (and spending a lot of coin to get it out the door.)


When Garmin "suggested" that they would have a software WAAS upgrade
path
for the 430/530, the TSO was not availible. When the FAA issued the
TSO,
it
required 5 updates per second and that was beyond what the processor
on
the
430/530 could do. Their was no way to see this coming and Garmin
certainly
hasn't had any problem integrating WAAS into their non-IFR-certified
products. You seem to be inferring that not having WAAS for the
430/530
today is an issue and that Garmin should pull out all the stops to
get
WAAS
into the 430/530. I disagree. There is no functional advantage to
having
a
146 box today.

Mike
MU-2



"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...
Actually what you are referring to is Chrysler and Garmin did
not
lose
the
business.. The system bought by Chrysler from Alpine was at a
higher
price
(~$1600) point than the one being developed by Garmin for
Chrysler.
The
stock was ready to take a hit, having run from $20 to $50 with
no
real
pullbacks. Automotive is indeed going to be the largest market
but
the
margins are going to be the lowest.

Mike
MU-2


"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in
message
news I believe it was GM. It was reported back in June. Garmin's
stock
took
a
hit
after the announcement, since the auto sector represents the
greatest
revenue growth potential for GPS equipment makers...

Aviation, as we all know, is a very small, niche market
compared
to
the
auto
sector.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in
message
link.net...

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote
in
message
...
The 430/530 do not meet the WAAS TSO (146a, I believe).
They
were
designed
long before this TSO went final. Garmin always said the
430/530
would
be
"upgradeable", but I think the final TSO caught them by
surprise.

You WILL need a hardware upgrade in the boxes to provide
the
1
Hz
refresh
rate required by the TSO. Garmin reps at OSH this year
stated
the
upgrade
should be available early next year, but based upon
Garmin's
typical
schedule challenges, it will probably be more like late 04
before
they
can
provide good turn-around, and that's assuming they don't
find
any
"issues"
with the hardware upgrade...

There will be a significant software upgrade as well.

Seeing as there are only a handfull of LNAV/VNAV
approaches
published,
I
don't see the hurry in finding the que. I will wait a bit
until
the
hardware
upgrade is on the street for a couple months and any
inevitable
problems
are
worked out...

In the meantime, were I to buy right now, I would probably
go
for
the
CNX80,
but I would be concerned that Garmin has just bought UPSAT
and
future
product support. The "gist" I got from the Garmin reps at
OSH
was
their
entire engineering staff is focused on rolling out the
high
dollar
G-1000,
and everything else is taking a back seat at the moment.
Kind
of
disappointing, since I was hoping they would come out with
an
interface
for
the 530 with WxWorx instead of that pathetic EchoFlight...

Garmin lost a major auto contract recently because of
their
high
pricing
structure. Don't know how that's going to effect their
business
model,
but
I
hope they refocus on their core aviation market.

I'm waiting.

DB

What auto maker was that?

Mike
MU-2