In article ,
says...
There will always be pilots that do dumb things.
So, based on anecdotal here-say, you'd like to prevent
the rest of us from competing, or make it unpalatable ?
Really now...

The story was not here-say. It was an eyewitness report
from a pilot who was next to the runway when the motor
glider landed. He even said that although he was standing
less than 300 feet from the runway and there were runway
lights on he didn't know the glider was on the runway
until he heard the wheel chirp on the asphault.

I contacted Hannes Linke, one of the primary people running the Hilton
Cup and who has been with it from the start, about this story. He says
he is not aware of it. Perhaps you could give us some details, like a
year and a name? It's hard to understand how a glider pilot flies in
pitch black conditions, even in a DG 400.

Even if the story is true, back then the Hilton Cup was run very
differently than our contests are now, which use GPS loggers.
Obviously, getting points for flying after sunset isn't possible in a
contest.

It is still possible for motorglider pilot to fly low over unlandable
terrain, planning to use the engine to save him if he doesn't find
lift. Possible isn't the same as probable, and I don't see any
evidence that this kind of behavior is a problem in our contests. I
think this is because most motorglider pilots are conservative, and
the situation where this kind of risk would be worth taking doesn't
occur very often.

I'm reminded of a conversation years ago, even before there were
motorgliders in contests, when I tried to persuade a pilot to enter a
contest. Basically, he claimed you had to take crazy risks to win a
contest, like landing out in bad fields or flying low over unlandable
terrain to get the good lift, and he wasn't going to fly like that, so
he had no chance of winning a contest, so why enter?

Well, most of us are still willing enter contests, even though we know
it is possible that some pilot might gain an advantage by taking undue
risk. I hope we'll be willing to enter contests with motorgliders,
until there is evidence that "low flight over ugly terrain" is
changing the contest results.


Give them an inch and they will take a mile. You motor
guys weren't happy just being allowed to enter competitions
with non motorized gliders. Now you not only want to deny
there are any advantages to motor gliders.

I don't think any of us have claimed there are no advantages to flying
a motorglider in contests. We have stated our belief that, overall, a
serious competitor will almost always be better off in a motorless
glider. A pilot less serious about winning, who flies so he can always
land at an airport, may or may not have an advantage over a
motorglider pilot that is willing to start his engine over a field
(depends on the contest area and the weather). A motorglider pilot
that flies to be at an airport when he gets low, whether he actually
lands at the airport or starts the engine over the airport, will be at
a distinct disadvantage to the other pilots.

But you want to
claim you have disadvantages and want even more concessions.

Eric wants to be able to get airport bonus points for not
landing at an airport worth bonus points. He says it's
safer for a motor glider to start his motor and fly away
rather than land for airport bonus points. He claims
that at Coulee he gave up the airport bonus points by
starting his motor in order to make it safer for other
gliders. I guess we should assume that the fact that
the runway is only an 18 foot wide gravel runway, had
no bearing on his decision.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/WA15

Whether I am a self-serving, cynical, son-of-a-bitch or not, the
current airport bonus does not encourage the safest action from a
pilot flying a motor glider. Since the only purpose of the bonus is
encourage a safer termination of the flight, I believe my proposal is
worthy of consideration. Please consider that the bonus for "landing
at an airport" is not intended to encourage LANDING, since a motorless
glider is going to land regardless, but to encourage AT THE AIRPORT.

The Coulee strip is narrow, but 25 meter span Nimbus 3's can take off
from this runway, and so can my 18 meter span ASH 26 E. We do need a
wing runner to do it, and there were plenty of them that day. If there
were no other gliders there (and consequently no wing runners), I
might have decided not to land, and give up the 25 points. So, we have
a situation where the availability of 25 point bonus and wing runners
(a consequence of the other gliders landing there) is encouraging me
to do the less safe thing.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)