Robert Henry wrote:

Hilton wrote:
Robert Henry wrote:

If the safety pilot logs
nothing,
and is not the acting PIC, by or for lack of agreement, I don't see
why
the
person acting as a safety pilot would have any responsibility for the
conduct/operation of the flight during the violation.

Robert,

I'm going to politely disagree with you. Logging has no bearing as
to
responsibilities; i.e. 'logging' versus 'acting', so who logs what is
irrelavant. Secondly, the safety pilot is a required crew member
required
by the FARs and is therefore not 'just a passenger' - needs a private
certificate (or greater) and medical. If a second 'safety pilot' is
required (note the quotes since they'd be called an 'observer'), only
then
would they be a 'passenger'.

Take a look at 91.109.


Hilton,

See Section 1.1, definition of PIC. The FAA will file paperwork against
"the [one] person who has _final_ authority and responsibility for the
operation and safety of the flight." There can only be one person with
final authority. What will be one way to determine who that one person is?
I think the logbooks will come into evidence....

I agree with that. That's why I log SIC when acting as safety pilot, not
because of the regs, but because of insurance; i.e. if I logged PIC, it
would be easy for the insurance company to show (beyond reasonable doubt -
been watching too much TV) that I was PIC in the right seat; i.e they
wouldn't have to pay anything as per the school's insurance. While it may
look like I'm contradicting myself, I'm not, since had I not logged
anything, I was still (at least) SIC, not "just a passenger".


If both pilots are violated because it can't even be determined who was
operating the controls, fine, but I'd rather argue a defense of any such
citation as SIC with black and white (blue and green, whatever) evidence
in
the logbook.

"Operating the controls" is as (ir)relavent as "logging PIC". Jessica
Dubroff was just a passenger, but was operating the controls
(http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X05676&key=1). You could
have two private pilots, either one could be operating the controls, either
one could be PIC, either one could be hooded, etc.

Anyway, coming back to your statement: "If the safety pilot logs nothing,
and is not the acting PIC, by or for lack of agreement, I don't see why the
person acting as a safety pilot would have any responsibility for the
conduct/operation of the flight during the violation. .". The safety pilot
is SIC whether he/she likes/logs it or not, is therefore a required
crewmember, and therefore has several responsibilities most importantly
looking outside.

Hilton