Greg Esres wrote:


Bad example. TWA514 was not vectored for the approach, they simply
descended below the published altitude for their route.

No, they descended to published altitudes BEFORE they reached the
point where those altitudes applied. They were not on a "black line".

I think this example is appropriate because

1) involves the definition of "established", and
2) involves confusion between who is providing terrain clearance.

TWA 514 is a good example. Contrary to what Steve asserts, they were
vectored and they were not on a published route at the terminous of that
vector.

Washington Center took them off their published route and vectored them to
an extension of the final approach course for the IAD VOR/DME RWY 12 IAP.
The intercept occurred some 30 miles NW of the VOR and told to descend to
and manintain 7,000. The center then handed them off to IAD TRACON. The
approach controller simply cleared them for the approach without issuing
any crossing fixes or altitude restrictions. The flight was still on an
unpublished extension of the final approach course when cleared for the
approach.

At the NTSB hearing the FAA alleged that the flight was a non-radar
arrival, thus the approach controller had no duties or responsibilities to
monitor the flight in any manner on radar. Needless to say, that didn't
sit well in most quarters.