Bill,

First of all, the issue is whether these sportplanes are overpriced and
delivering poor value for the buck, not whether there are some people who
will actually pay the artificially high price, regardless.

I agree that the idea is to attract a wider audience to recreational flying,
but $80,000 is too much money for a toy, for most individuals. If you talk
to people on the marketing side of recreational products they will tell you
that $50,000 is a very real psychological barrier. That's why you the vast
majority of boats and other recreational vehicles priced below this point.
As you go over that threshold it becomes a niche market for hardcore
enthusiasts or the very affluent.

Also, I don't believe it is a marketing problem. It is a value problem.
These planes just aren't worth what the manufacturers are asking for them.
No amount of marketing is going to overcome a porr value proposition.

Advertising is not going to change that. It will just add more cost to the
product. Do you know how much it costs to run an ad in a mainstream media
publication? It is a lot more than in the enthusiast magazines -- and is out
of reach for these small, bootstrap companies. Advertizing in the WSJ or
Time is bizjet territory, not LSA.

What might work is advertising in enthusiast magazines other than aviation,
such as boating, skiing, motorcycling, etc. Here you already have the "toy"
demographic who are likely to consider something new.

But the best marketing approach is going to be to provide a good product at
a realistic price. At $80,000 (Really closer to $100,000 if equipped with a
few of those options you suggested), there are very few individuals who will
buy them. Right now the only ones I can think of are those who can't get a
medical, are desperate to fly and don't care about the value they are
getting for their dollar.

I agree with some of the comments that have been made that the first
entrants are pricing high and aiming for just the desperate medical-less
demographic. That market will soon be saturated and then who are they going
to sell these $100,000 toys to? In a few years, I expect prices to be
considerably lower as smart entreprenurs get into this business and begin
offering planes that are better value.

I also expect that the resale value of the planes that are selling now to do
a graveyard spiral. In Canada, we've had what the advanced ultralight
category for a number of years, which is very similar to your Sport Pilot,
and have had the Tecnams and a lot of these other European planes for some
time. Try to sell a used one and see how much you get. As soon as you fly it
off the dealer's field it will have dropped at least a third of its value.

Regards,

Gordon.






"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
...
Start with this: How many people do you know who own a $45,000 SUV?

Light Sport Aircraft are not intended for people who are already pilots.

The whole purpose of the Light Sport Certificate is to draw new people,
along with new money, into the sport side of aviation.

Consider someone who has never flown before. He's run through golf, and
tennis, and skiing. He has a nice house, with a home theater and possibly
a
pool. He has reached the point where there are almost no "toys" left for
him
to spend his money on.

Ask this guy if $80,000 dollars is too much to pay for an airplane, and he
will consider the $45,000 he paid for his SUV, and quite probably say that
it IS NOT too much money.

Just as a side note: I'm unable to get a medical, so Sport Pilot is the
only
way for me to go. I don't have $80,000, so I'm planning to build an eLSA.
So
I have been doing a lot of research on LSA's.

And one thing I have learned is that most of the people in the aviation
business are really lousy at marketing their products to anyone other than
other people in aviation.

When was the last time you saw a Tecnam or Cub Crafters or Legend Cub ad
in
the Wall Street Journal, or Time magazine, or your local newspaper?

Just as is happening with this thread, far too many people with a stake in
LSA have simply been preaching to the choir. But the choir has been there,
done that, and isn't going to pay $80K for a "toy" airplane.

There's one other factor at work with "conventional" aircraft, that is
also
in play to some extent with LSA's. Consider a non-flyer who gets out of
his
car and climbs into a Warrior or a 172. In his car, he's got GPS, he's got
satellite radio, he's got digital everything. But when he climbs into a
light Piper or Cessna, he's got his grandfather's Buick. Why would he want
to fly around in something that clunky looking?

LSA has one big advantage: it can be very nimble. Most of the smarter LSA
manufacturers are offering goodies like the Dynon EFIS ($2,500 +/-) or a
panel-mounted Garmin GPS 296 ($3,000 +/-). No more row after row of
incomprehensible steam gauges, now they have a cockpit with a sports car
feel.

It is quite possible to go out and SELL 10,000 $80,000 airplanes to people
who have never set foot in anything smaller than a 737. But the operative
word is SELL.

Five years from now, you'll have may 1,000 - 1,500 of those people still
flying; all of the rest will have moved on to the next new and hot hobby.

Which means you'll have 8,500 - 9,000 $80,000 airplanes that can be bought
for less than $40,000. And they'll be far better equipped than the
airplanes
now rolling out of the doors at Cessna or Piper.

So, the $80,000 airplane model can work, if the manufacturers learn how to
market them properly, to people who are not yet pilots.

And Sport Pilot can work to all of our benefit, because if enough new
people
come into GA, it will thrive. But with no new pilots coming in...