I might add that what you file and what you're cleared for in the NY area
are almost always different, at least until you get used to their preferred
routes (which aren't always the same as those in the back of the AF/D). In
my short time here I've never been given a STAR, but I have been given a DP.
Long story short: even if you file a STAR/DP, you may not get it.

Another poster mentioned it already, but if you'd prefer not to fly a STAR
or DP, then say so in your flight plan when you file. If you forget, and
they give you one in your clearance, say "unable".

blue skies,
mark

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 17:51:13 GMT, "Mark D"
wrote:

Hi All,

I tried plugging through the google newsgroups, with no luck.

I am currently a instrument *student*, doing my Multi-IFR stuff. I'm
Canadian, and some of this stuff isn't really covered in any of our
regulations or material from what I can see (unless im missing
something),
and its a more "US Centric" question I have a question that I thought
you
all might be able to answer.

Let's say I was instrument rated, and I was flying into a city like
Minneapolis, into St. Paul downtown, for example. (KSTP).
Let's say I was arriving from the east, from Wisconsin.

I looked at Minneapolis, and they have several arrivals, including ones
like
the GEP.GEP4 STAR. My question is
a) if you were flying a piston single/light twin into KSTP, are you
required
to file a STAR? It seems that by choosing one of the STAR's, you would
really have to go out of your way. I'm assuming of course, you could
intercept the STAR partway (not start it from the "initial fix"). Could
you
just file an airway to STP then expect radar vectors for the approach?
Or
should you expect the STAR as part of your clearance? Is it necessary to
file it?

b) Departing from STP, the only SID takes you to Green Bay or something
like that, which obviously wouldn't work if you were flying to , say, St.
Louis. Could you just file to intercept an airway and go from there?

What are the *real world* implications of flying into busy airspace IFR
in a
piston single/light twin..this is all assuming that you do NOT have a way
of
navigating direct (GPS), etc.

Thanks for any input.

Mark


My replies are "US-centric" g

You are NEVER required to file a SID or a STAR.

In my piston powered single, I have never received a STAR, and most of my
flying has been in the busy areas of the NE around Boston and New York.

Leaving a busy airport, it is not uncommon to receive a SID but, again,
there is NO requirement to file it.

If you do not have the information on board your aircraft to fly the
SID/STAR for the departure/destination airport, include "NO DP" or "NO
SID"
or "NO STAR" in the remarks section of your flight plan.

There have been some terminology changes, and SID's are now included in
the
more generic term DP. DP's include SID's and ODP's (obstacle departure
procedures).

You should review carefully information on ODP's. You are not required to
fly them if you are flying under Part 91 (in the US -- I don't know what
Canada requires). However, you *may* fly them at your option, even if not
cleared to do so. And if I am unfamiliar with the airport, I will fly a
published ODP in order to assure obstacle clearance. People have crashed
by not being aware of ODP's.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)