Derek

Perhaps your remarks would be better directed at President
Bush, I am sure the good people who share our love
of gliding do not want to be bothered by this on a
soaring forum.
I would like to assure those good people that the USA
is not hated by all, I fly from an airfield built for
the Mighty Eighth and I think it important to remember
who your friends are. Political considerations aside
glider pilots are that wherever they are and do not
deserve to read the sort of views expounded below on
a forum dedicated to our sport

DAJ
ASW17 401


At 13:18 21 November 2005, Derek Copeland wrote:
Bill, Do you realise how much the USA is hated and
despised in the rest of the World? And what goes on
in Guantamano Bay doesn't help your cause one iota!

I say this as a white, protestant, Anglo-Saxon, English
person (and a glider pilot). I was one of the estimated
2 - 3 million people who took part in the Anti-War
march in London prior to your country's invasion of
Iraq. I very much regret that we were not able to influence
our Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to withdraw his support
for this action.

This war has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis, over
2000 US troops and I think about 200 UK troops. We
have recently suffered a serious terrorist attack in
London, probably directly as a result of our Government's
support for the war and America.

And for what purpose? No weapons of mass destruction
have been found. The lot of the general population
of Iraq is much worse now than it was before, even
with Saddam Hussain out of power. I can only think
that this war was prompted by a desire for revenge
for the attack on the World Trade Centre, but as far
as I can see, there is little evidence that Iraq was
involved in this plot, dreadful though it was.

Your country is supposed to represent freedom and democracy,
but since you elected that bumbling idiot George W.
Bush, your ideals seem to have gone down the tubes.
Please thing what you are doing. If the USA as the
most powerful country in the World won't comply with
UN resolutions, why should any other country?

Sorry, not strictly related to gliding, but I just
ask you to think about what is going on in the World.
You may feel safe in your huge and geographically isolated
country, but we in Europe don't. There have also been
major terrorist attacks in other European countries,
especially Spain, where I also go gliding.

Derek Copeland

At 11:36 21 November 2005, Bill wrote:
Dear tw
What has this to do with soaring?
I await your reply.
Bill Hatfield-my real name.
tw wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo...1646014,00.htm

l

Note the disturbing parallel between the Nazi camp
guards humilation of Jews
by the desecration of the trappings of their religion
(e.g. forcing them to
wear underclothing made from cut up prayer shawls
etc) and the Guantamo
regime:

'When they handed out Korans to us in Bagram I remember
seeing the Americans
passing them through the airlocks and throwing them
onto the ground. People
might think that well, its just a book, but if you
believe like you do as a
Muslim that this is the unadulterated revealed speech
of God and it is the
most sacred thing that a Muslim would have in his
house. To see them do that
for me brought about a sense of complete desperation,'

Of course, such dehumanisation and contempt for your
captives is necessary
if you'r egoing to have to shovel them into a gas
oven one day..

'And it was of course part of the dehumanising process
again. And one of the
guards there of that unit told me when I used to have
discussions with them,
that when we see you people we can't look at you as
human beings. Our psyche
does not allow us to do that - because if we did we
wouldn't treat you this
way. It's easy for us to dehumanise you. First of
all most of you guys don't
speak the same language. Secondly, you look different.
Thirdly, you're
dressed different. Fourthly, you're in cages and we're
out here with the
guns.
The people who claim to be the upholders and defenders
of freedom are
debating now whether it is legitimate to use torture.
After all of what the
world has been through arguing against the fact. And
if it does in one way
or another become legitimised, either mental torture
or physical or
psychological, which has been clearly used by several
countries, then I
think the world will spiral into something that nobody
will be able to
control.'