On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:02:36 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
[...]
That doesn't seem to be what you are saying above. Did I miss
something?

I don't know what you missed. But the text you quoted doesn't contradict
anything I wrote.

I'm having difficulty with this particular clause of what you wrote:

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:15:30 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

Since a pilot can get a Special VFR clearance pretty much anywhere that
there *isn't* Class G airspace near the surface (generally below 700 or
1200 feet, depending), ...

It seems to contradict:

§ 91.157 Special VFR weather minimums.

(a) ... , special VFR operations may be conducted under the
weather minimums and requirements of this section [Special VFR],
instead of those contained in §91.155 [VFR], below 10,000 feet MSL
WITHIN THE AIRSPACE CONTAINED BY THE UPWARD EXTENSION OF THE
LATERAL BOUNDARIES OF THE CONTROLLED AIRSPACE DESIGNATED TO THE
SURFACE OF AN AIRPORT.

I find your qualification of "pretty much anywhere that there *isn't*
Class G airspace" to lack any mention of the necessity for the Special
VFR clearance to be flown within the CONTROLLED AIRSPACE SURFACE AREA
OF AN AIRPORT. So I must be misinterpreting what you wrote, or FAR
§91.157.

If you are near the surface (less than 700', for example) and you are not in
Class G, it is practically certain that you are "within the airspace
contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the
controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport".

Ah. So implicit in being less than 700' AGL while being in Class B,
C, D or E controlled airspace, is the notion that you are within an
airport's surface area of controlled airspace, for it is the only
controlled airspace charted to the surface.

If you were not in such protected airspace, you'd be in the Class G
underlying the Class E (assuming there's any Class E in the neighborhood at
all). In Class G airpace, the Special VFR clearance isn't required [nor
available]; the helicopter enjoys the lack of a minimum visibility
requirement without one [a clearance] there.

In decades of flying, I had never considered the fact that controlled
airspace ONLY reaches the surface at airport surface areas be they
controlled airports or not.

For all practical purposes, helicopters can fly in arbitrarily low visibility.
91.155 grants them this right in Class G airspace [without benefit of a
clearance], and 91.157 grants them this right elsewhere [within controlled
airspace, BECAUSE it extends to the surface ONLY over airports] (with a Special
VFR clearance).

If "91.157 grants them this right elsewhere (with a Special VFR
clearance)," it must be possible to obtain Special VFR clearance at
(for example in southern California):

Paso Robles (PRB) an uncontrolled airport
Blythe (BLH) an uncontrolled airport
Needles (EED) an uncontrolled airport
Desert Resorts Regional (TRM) an uncontrolled airport
Imperial Co (IPL) an uncontrolled airport
Within the Class E surface extensions of many controlled airports

Is that actually the case?