On 26 Feb 2004 06:59:12 -0800, (Michael) wrote:

Given that on RADAR vectors we are routinely set up for a 30 degree
intercept right at the FAF, I would think that it's reasonable to have
aircraft approaching at the correct altitude and within 30 degrees of
the FAC skip the procedure turn as a general rule.

I would disagree with you that that should be a general rule.

There is a very specific rule that says if you are getting vectors to
final, than you don't do a course reversal (without notifying ATC). In
order for ATC to safely give you VTF, certain requirements must be met at
their end.

And you should NOT be getting a turn on AT the FAF unless you have
specifically requested it. Furthermore, (and one of the controller's may
correct me here), the interception angle should not be more than 20° unless
you are a few miles (?2?) outside of the approach gate, which itself will
be outside of the FAF.

If ATC is giving you a 30° intercept at the FAF without you requesting it,
I believe they are acting contrary to their manual, and engaging in a
potentially dangerous practice.


I have actually
seen approaches which exempt a certain arc from PT requirements

The one you cite is a LOT different from the circumstance we are
discussing. The approach you cite is NoPT for arrivals at the IAF if you
are ON AIRWAYS (V198 or V552) leading to an IAF (TBD VORTAC) which is
separated from the FAF by a five mile intermediate segment.

The procedure you are proposing at BJC has you arriving at ALIKE (which is
a collocated IAF/FAF) and essentially using it as an FAF. Skipping the PT
in that circumstance is not something I feel is safe "as a general rule".


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)