On 12/16/2005 08:43, three-eight-hotel wrote:

One thing I noticed around here, is that when you're practicing
approaches, NorCal will say "Approved for the approach" rather than
"Cleared for the approach". They don't do this every time, but I was
told this was their way of making it clear that they know you're not
on an IFR flight plan.

I've always received a "cleared for the approach"

In my training, I only heard "Approved for the approach" a few times.
The first time, I was confused by it, and thought it meant I couldn't
fly the approach (because I didn't hear the magic words). My CFII said
that is how they say in during VMC practice of IAPs, and that it was
strange we didn't hear it more often.

Hmmmm, I guess it's just another one of those local policies?


No. In fact, NorCal will generally remind you to maintain VFR at all
times. However, if the conditions at the field are clearly IMC, they
may "assume" what you want is an IFR clearance. I wouldn't think this
would just work without both sides being clear on what is happening,
so I would expect there to be some confusion

This is where I need to be clear... I like John's comment on simply
requesting an IFR clearance to the airport for multiple approaches.

Yes, but you can do that from the air using a pop-up as well. If you
would like to depart your home airport VFR, don't feel forced into
departing on an IFR flight plan just because you want to go IFR at
some point in the flight.

There were times when we wanted to practice air work, but there was
low-level stratus around the area. We would request an IFR clearance
to VFR on top, and once there, cancel IFR. Then, when we were ready to
come back to the airport, we would just request an IFR clearance for
the desired approach, and bang, we're back in the system.


Well, go nuts if you want. Generally, I just look back on the flight
and guestimate. If it was a 1.2 hour flight, and I was only in the
clouds during the final approach and initial missed of each approach,
then I might figure I was in IMC for .4 hours - then split my time
accordingly in my log.

Makes sense...

By the way, I plan to make my first actual instrument approaches (in
IMC) with an instructor. Do you plan to do yours single pilot? Please
don't take this as criticism - I tend to be overly cautious, and I
expect there will be folks who will argue that if you have your rating,
you're qualified to exercise it

I absolutely intend to take an instrucotr along my first time... We've
talked about this before. I tend to lean toward the cautious side as
well.

I'm utilizing the incredible resources in this group to extend my
knowledge base!

I especially enjoy discussions like these. With a green rating and little
practical experience, I've got a lot to learn as well.

I'm amazed at how little I feel like I know, yet I was
able to achieve the rating.

Well, if you saw my write-up on my instrument check ride, you'll know
that I almost felt cheated-out of any real testing. The examiner (who
is also the chief flight instructor and owner of the FBO) did a really
terrible job of evaluating my abilities. But, I got my rating, and I
figured that I can continue to learn.

I tend to underestimate myself, but am
always driven to keep learning! I'm very comfortable with my aviation
skills at the point where I am, but I have no desire to go jump into an
overly-risky situation without some real world experience, with an
instructor (there was an entire thread on risk at one point!).

Yeah, that was what I was hinting at. On the other side of the coin,
when you flew your first solo, you did that without an instructor. At
the time, you may have thought less about your skills, but when you
took-off, that all dropped away, and you began to realize that you
were indeed adequately prepared for the task.

Still, I plan to take a CFII with me the first time ;-)

I don't
see shooting approaches at MHR overly-risky, with clear to the East as
an out, but I would feel much better if my first attempt was with
someone that could watch my back and critique my experience when it was
all over.

Amen to that! The good thing about the approach at MHR (at least the
approaches to 22) is they are so bloody long. You have plenty of time
to keep things together.

By the way, today would be perfect for it. limited vis and 500' ceilings!


Best Regards,
Todd



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA