Ah, I see. I was under the misguided belief that one of the reasons that
published DPs existed was to save a little time by shortening a clearance
that frequently starts off with a "de-facto" DP. (The fact is, whether or
not it is official, ATC will start you out of certain aerodromes the same
way every time, no matter what you file.).

This assumption was in part from backtracking the fact that if you put "no
DPs no STARs" in your flight plan, you will pretty much still get them, but
they'll be forced to read the whole thing out to you rather than just saying
the name; so in that sense the pubished DP becomes merely ATC shorthand for
what they want you to do.

I see the logic of my ways.

There would be no useful purpose for a SID (different than an ODP) out of
Palo Alto because of the nature of the airspace.

But a SID can include radar vectors, no? For example, from the San Jose
Loupe 1:

"TAKE-OFF RUNWAYS 29, 30L/R: Climb runway heading at SJC 1.8 DME northwest
of SJC VOR/DME turn right heading 120^, maintain 5000, for radar vectors to
SJC VOR/DME, then via SJC R-339 to DYBLO INT, Thence...."

But, you normally received vectors out over the bay because of the
critical proximity of Palo Alto to San Francisco International, San Jose,
Oakland, and Hayward Airports.

By the way, I see vectors that take me to V334 somewhere between SJC vor and
SUNOL intersection. So far, every time.

-- dave j



Dave Jacobowitz wrote:

I fly out of Palo Alto, CA, and I have never heard an IFR clearance
read over ground whose route section did not start "when able, right
turn to 060 with 1 mi of the airport, radar vectors san jose, v334
sunol ..." My clearance starts out this way whether I file a flight
plan to the east, north, or south. (I haven't flown to Hawaii yet, so
can't say what I'd get going west. ) It also does not matter if I
file /G or /A.

This is pretty much what you get out of PAO if you fly a spamcam.
(It's possible that more capable aircraft get something else.)

In any case it seems that if a certain departure clearance is
frequently used, that would be the circumstances under whch someone
would say "let's publish a DP!"

So, why wouldn't someone publish a DP? Does it cost the gov't extra
money? Does a published DP have to meet higher requirements than a
hand-rolled departure clearance?

Just curious.

If they do create one, I want to name it. "Stinky Garbage one, San
Jose transition" (STINK.SJC)

-- dave j
-- jacobowitz73 --at-- yahoo --dot-- com