"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Stan Prevost wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...


2) Timing the hold to arrive back at the holding fix right at the EFC
time. A hold can be 4,3 or 2 minutes so you mix them up to make the
time come out right.

Huh? Did you make all that up? The only time you need to cross the
holding
fix at any particular time is when you are doing a timed approach from
the
hold and you are given a crossing time. EFC time has nothing to do with
anything other than lost com, and there is no requirement or
recommendation
from the FAA or anyone else I have ever heard to attempt crossing the fix
at
EFC time, nor can I imagine any need to do so.

From the instrument PTS III(C) "Holding Procedures"
"8.Uses proper wind correction procedures to maintain the desired
pattern and to arrive over the fix as close as possible to a specified
time."

On your checkride you need to time your hold to arrive over the fix w/i
about 1 minute of the specified time.


That relates to timed approaches from a holding fix, which is the only time
a crossing time will be specified. No specific tolerances on the time are
given anywhere that I know of. I wouldn't disagree with your "about one
minute", although nobody I know uses tolerances that large in training.
DPEs around here don't seem to specify a time.

A hold can be 4,3 or 2 minutes so you mix them up to make the
time come out right.

A hold can be almost any time you want unless you are assigned a specific
time, and that time applies to the inbound leg, and is not meant to be
precise.

Right, that's how you cause the aircraft to arrive at the fix at the
ETC.


So why do you say to mix up holds having integral minute leg lengths? And
why are holds 4, 3, or 2 minutes?

I don't understand ETC, I assume you mean EFC as you stated in your original
post. It has nothing to do with EFC.

From the Instrument Flying Handbook:

"EFC times require no time adjustment since the purpose for issuance of
these times is to provide for possible loss of two-way radio
communications."


I don't understand the point of telling people that they shouldn't worry
much about holds because you hardly ever have to fly one.

I never said that.



True, you did not explicitly say that. You did say:


"In real life holding is about as common as being hit by lightening.
Even when you do get a hold its usually just a vectored hold, not a
formal procedures."

I don't know your intent with that comment, but it appeared to me to be
implicitly deprecating the importance of holding patterns as a component of
instrument flight and the importance of being proficient in flying them.

Anyway, my experience is certainly different, and "formal" holds are not
uncommon (but not timed approaches).