You have thoughtful and valid observations. Yet, I suspect, you'd
agree in spite of these issues and other problems we still live in a
great country. Some of us could live nearly anywhere we'd like, but
there just hasn't been much migration from the United States.

I do know a fair number of well educated foreign nationals living and
working here (legally), but very few of my friends have gone abroad
for a serious length of time to advance their careers. It may be my
sampling is biased, I've been privileged to live near well known
universities most of my adult life.




On Feb 3, 10:04 am, "Jim M" wrote:
On Feb 1, 11:26 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:



These are the flight conditions you guys who choose to live in and
around the Washington, DC area must contend with, and there's nothing
you can do about it, short of voting the *******s out of office (for
all the good *that* will do).

Oh, so it's our fault for living here, huh? Some pilots are stationed
here, sent here by their companies, live here to be close to ill
family members, work here to develop their professional career, or any
number of other reasons which you wish would go away so we'd stop
complaining. How inconvenient for you.

After 5+ years, it's time to either
adapt -- or move. (I know several folks who have.)

If you really know people who moved because of the ADIZ, you're
refuting your argument that it's a "small price to pay". News flash:
people don't rearrange their lives over minor inconveniences. It's
been exactly 4 years this month that the ADIZ was established -- not
since 9-11. A temporary measure. A "small price to pay".

snip
And I contend that -- other than you poor guys that are stuck in or
near that stupid ADIZ -- *nothing* has changed for the rest of us.

That would be the 99.9% of the country I was referring to.

And I'll stand by that assertion. I fly as often today -- actually
more -- than I did pre-9/11, and (so long as I avoid your area), I fly
with exactly the same rules, freedoms, and regulations as before. In
short, MX's contention is completely, utterly, and thankfully wrong.
--

The ADIZ alone affects 10,000 pilots. You don't represent 99.9% of
the rest of the country. You live and fly in the middle of nowhere.
Good for you, but most people don't. Most pilots in this country live
near cities, and that means NFL TFRs, MLB TFRs, NASCAR TFRs, NCAA
TFRs, and nuclear plant TFRs. That's what everybody else deals with.
Not to mention popup 30 nm TFRs for the President, and the moving TFRs
during the campaign. Sure doesn't sound free to me.

And the worst thing is that since 9-11, the ideas of due process and
presumed innocence are gone, as are any consideration of
circumstances. Accused drug dealers get more breaks than pilots in
these airspace violation hearings. These are people whose only crime,
if they committed one at all, was to get momentarily lost. Ever been
proned out on national TV for getting lost, Jay?

That's just the tip of the iceberg, and that's just aviation. I could
fill pages on what's happened in other areas, all of which you seem
blissfully unaware. No, we're far less free than on 9-10-2001. Your
ignorance of reality doesn't change it.