"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
om...


From a purely pragmatic point of view sticking with an established
gun design and logistics chain probably made sense but the reality
is that the 20mm cannon has superior penetration as it simply
has more KE and a larger explosive filling.

I say again, show me where the P-47 was ineffective with its .50 cals.
Or show me where the Typhoon was decidedly better (in which case I
wonder why the RAF was a P-47 user...).


Show me where I claimed it was ineffective ?

Are you defending Paul's assertion that the 20mm was a hands-down
better weapon in the strafe roll or not? I am just claiming rough
parity between the two weapons; if you are gonna claim one was
demonstrably better than the other, bring out the evidence.


The point is that the 20mm was MORE effective not that the .50
was useless , it clearly wasnt

Can you prove it was MORE effective? How so? You discount reliability,
rate of fire, ammo load, and velocity and reach that conclusion...how?



than the 20mm (and the USN agreed, as we saw with the armament that
was affiixed to the Hellcats and Corsairs through the end of the war,
and in the case of the Corsair through the Korean experience).


In point of fact the Corsair switched to cannon armament in
the F4U-4B and F4U-4C.

"Production included 2050 F4U-4s with six .50 guns, 297 F4U-4Bs or
F4U-4Cs with four 20mm cannon"


As I said

But I believe the .50 cals were still being produced upo to the very
end of the war?


Source: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo...other/f4u.html

Come on, 15% of the aircraft manufactured were all that got the 20mm's
out of the -4 series.


The last 15%

Sure of that?



The AU-1 produced specifically for the marines during the Korean war
also had an all cannon armament

An even poorer example; only about 100 were produced during the war.
How many hundreds of older Corsairs were still flying with the .50 cal
during Korea? A photo from Vought's archive shows one with its six
MG's (see http://www.voughtaircraft.com/photos/data/planes8.htm).


The last Corsairs produced

And those poor deficiently armed older Corsairs were still slogging
along as well.





The USN switched to 20mm. the USAF didn't. Difference between
Pacific
and Europe, perhaps?

When did the USN switch to the 20mm during WWII, or for that
matter
during the Korean War? AFAIK, the standard remained the .50 cal in
both services until after the Korean conflict, when both began
shifting to the 20mm at roughly the same time (in the same general
timeframe that the A-1 was coming into major service with its
20mm,
the later F-86 variants were also gaining the heavier weapons,
IIRC,
as was the new F-100).

Brooks

The USN jets produced in the immediate post war period
were cannon armed. The Grumman F9F for example reached
the fleet in 1949 and had 4 20mm cannon as did the F2H
Banshee

The F9F-5 was indeed cannon armed. But, the USAF also had early
experience in cannon armament for fighters, roughly in the same
timeframe as what you describe. The P-38 offered a combined MG and
20mm cannon armament during WWII; the P-39 also sported cannon in both
the 20mm and 37mm guises. Likewise, the F-86 first sported 20mm during
the Korean conflict (though the initial experience was less than
satisfactory--it was not until the H model came along that the 20mm
appeared as the standard armament). The fact is that the USN did not
switch to 20mm during WWII, ahead of the USAAF, as Paul stated with
his "difference between the Pacific and Euro theaters" comment.

Brooks


Clearly it did since every fighter built after 1946 for the
USN was cannon armed.

Since when was 1946 "during WWII"??? Of the F4U-4 series. 85% were
produced with MG's; 100% of the F6F series was also MG armed. Vought
has a photo of a MG armed Corsair readying for takeoff in Korea. So
where in heck do you come up with the USN switching to the 20mm during
WWII?


Where did I claim this happened during WW2 ?

My words: "The fact is that the USN did not switch to 20mm during
WWII, ahead of the USAAF, as Paul stated with his "difference between
the Pacific and Euro theaters" comment."

Your response:

"Clearly it did since every fighter built after 1946 for the
USN was cannon armed."

That "clearly it did" refers to the "the USN did not switch to 20mm
during WWII...", right?


My words were 'after 1946' I believe

Show me where the 20mm strafer of WWII was more effective than the .50
cal strafer.

Brooks


Keith