On Aug 15, 5:25 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...





On Aug 14, 2:55 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message

...

Charles Yeates wrote:
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html

Gee, only about US $90K delivered. I'm not complaining, it's probably
a
bargain compared to a new K-21 or DG-505. I just find it amusing that
some wonder why a lot a clubs stick with their 2-33s...

Marc

2-33's are cheap. Shooting yourself in the foot is also cheap. 2-33's
are
cheap for a very good reason - they're terrible gliders.

2-33's have done untold damage to American soaring. Since 2-33's were
introduced as many as a hundred thousand potential glider pilots have
walked
away because they were introduced to the sport with a ride in a 2-33. In
the long run, THAT was expensive.

When 2-33's were introduced in the late 1960's they cost $25,000. In
todays
Dollars, that's $145,000. by comparison, the PW-6U is a screaming
bargan.

Bill Daniels

Bill obviously lives in a different world of gliding than we do in my
club.
Our gliders have to live outside because we don't have a hanger.
Our 2-33's are busy all day most days while the '21 flies much less.
Almost 1/4 of our membership are juniors who could never afford to fly
if we had to support $100,000 2 seaters.
People love to ride in our 2-33's. One out of 4 rides turns into an
introductory training package. Doen't sound like we are scaring them
off.
The missing point is that it is not what you fly- it is that you fly.
There is room in our sport for many approaches without putting down
the other guy.
A little research would show the 2-33 was introduced in about 1972 and
likely is only second in our active fleet to 1-26's.
I think they have served us well.
UH

I think it's you who's living in the past. I also don't think you are
supporting youth. I think you have conned a bunch of people into
suppoprting a tow plane. The 2-33 excells at that - it falls out of the sky
so it needs a lot of tows. BTW, can't you use your real name?

BTW, the first customer 2-33 I saw was in use in 1967 in Southern
California. My logbook shows I instructed in them in 1970 so your 1972 date
is bogus.

Bill Daniels- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
I stand properly corrected on introduction of 2-33.
Not hiding behind the name. UH has been Hank Nixon for more than 30
years and on this site fairly regularly.
As to supporting youth, over my career I and my wife have personally
provided nmore than 30 cost free scholarships to young people. I have
soloed about 25 on their 14th birthday and at least 4 times that many
in their mid teens.
Many of these are now aviation professionals.
I provide a glider to our club juniors at no cost to them except they
keep it clean.
Founding member of a club that has support of youth soaring as on of
its purposes in our bylaws.
Founded our local club out of my wife's and my pocket.
Tim Mara did pretty much the same thing at his club.
Others I don't know have done the same thing
Will wait and see if this sounds like the profile of a con man.
2-33's stay up at our site pretty much anytime the other ships stay
up. They just don't go cross country on less than 2 kt climbs.
Your zeal to promote ground launching is a good thing. There is a lot
of opportunity for this to help grow soaring where sites permit. Many
are smaller multiple use sites like public airports where it simply
won't work. It vey much depends on where you are.
True we could go buy some land in the lower Hudson valley of NY and
set up a winching operation.
Let's examine the tradeoffs:
Sell 2 tugs and raise about $75K
Buy enough land for winching gliderport- About $1.5MM-2MM
No more Friday afternoon tows where only the tow pilot has to show up
at lunch time.
Oh Yea- forgot. Sell the 2-33's for 24 K and go buy a couple 21's for
200K.
maybe this sounds like a winner to you but it makes less than no sense
to me.
As I said in my earlier comment, there are many ways to provide
soaring and they all should be used where they apply best.
The 15 year old girl that did her first 2 hr soaring flight last
weekend in my 1-26 off a $13 tow did not think she was getting taken
by a con man.
Your apology accepted in advance.
UH- You know who this is.