On Aug 18, 8:32 am, Bob Moore wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote

If you know that you want to end up with both the CFII and the CFI
(ASEL for instance) then getting the CFII first is probably not a bad
idea because instead of one really hard checkride (the initial CFI)
and then a really easy checkride (the CFII add-on), you have to medium
hard checkrides (CFII initial (including all the FOI), then just the
CFI(ASEL for instance) add on. However, if you get the CFII and quite
w/o getting the CFI-ASEL/AMEL/etc then you have an almost worthless
rating.

It is indeed one of the problems in aviation today that we have
Flight Instructors who do not read and understand the regulations.
We are NOT CFIs nor CFIIs....The FAR defines our certificates as
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR. In fact, the remainder of the FARs refer to the
requirement for an AUTHORIZED INSTRUCTOR.

An obvious error in the quoted text above besides the use of CFI,
is the list of ratings that a Flight Instructor may have on his
Certificate. A Flight Instructor Certificate will not show LAND/SEA
as a class rating for the AIRPLANE category rating, only SINGLE
ENGINE/MULTI ENGINE.

If we can stop talking about CFI/CFII and understand the concept
of FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR with RATINGS, the answers are quite simple.

First, a FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATE for aircraft must be issued
with a CATEGORY and CLASS rating.

Second, a FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATE for instruments must be
issued with either an AIRPLANE, HELICOPTER, or POWERED-LIFT rating.

Nowhere in my 1977 copy of AC 60-14, Aviation Instructor's Handbook
nor the current CFRs, is there any reference to a CFI/CFII. Where
did you guys pick-up this terminology? Why can it not go the way
of the BFR? Oh...you guys still do BFRs instead of FLIGHT REVIEWS???

Following is the pertinent portion of CFR Title 14, Chapter 1, Part 61.

(c) The following ratings are placed on a flight instructor certificate
when an applicant satisfactorily accomplishes the training and
certification requirements for the rating sought:

(1) Aircraft category ratings-

(i) Airplane.

(ii) Rotorcraft.

(iii) Glider.

(iv) Powered-lift.

(2) Airplane class ratings-

(i) Single-engine.

(ii) Multiengine.

(3) Rotorcraft class ratings-

(i) Helicopter.

(ii) Gyroplane.

(4) Instrument ratings-

(i) Instrument-Airplane.

(ii) Instrument-Helicopter.

(iii) Instrument-Powered-lift.

Geez Bob
I admire your quest to change 50+ years of terminology! Yes you are
absolutely correct and I still hear Feds use the term BFR, and from
time to time I even hear someone say ATR (and I know you have been
around that long). If we were to use the full proper terms, we'd run
out of time before we ever got to the meat of the issue! gg
Best Personal Regards
Rocky ATP ASMELS Rotor IFR CFII/RAM AIGI (and I'll bet everyone knows
what all that means)