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**Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]** · October 15th 07, 03:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.homebuilt

Shirl wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
:

I'll bite (re the new thread)...

In an accident here last year, two pilots (CFI and a student) flying
an
A-36 from a local airline-pilot factory came over the fence at around
120 and bounced after their initial touchdown. The CFI finally
attempted
to take control (too late) without announcing the exchange of controls
while the student applied power (presumably for a go-round). The plane
veered off the runway at high speed, across the ramp, miraculously
missed tied-down planes in the first couple of rows and then slammed
into a V-tail Bo tied-down on the ramp, completely cutting it up w/the
prop, ripping the chains out of the ground, pushing it into the middle
of the rows, and destroying it. The two pilots were shaken but fine,
and
the A-36 had substantial damage but nothing like the V-tail.

After the accident, their excessive over-the-fence speed was
discussed,
and it was said that the school does not teach airspeeds during
approaches -- since the students are largely airline-bound
individuals,
they teach "descent-rate". Much discussion ensued in the following
weeks
about teaching the proper approach *for the airplane you're in at the
time* vs teaching airliner approaches in small, single-engine
aircraft.

Your comment caused me to do some Googling. This had some in
interesting
stats for a limited accident database.

archive.aya.org/safety/levyhibbler200207.pdf

Thank you!
And kudos to your instructor.

This is exactly the sort of crap I'm talking about. I fly lightplanes
and I also fly jets. I've flown five of your more poplualr sorts of jets
weighing anything up to 350,000 lbs.
they fly just like airplanes. The only tow things that are even half
true are the neccesisty for stabilised approaches, and even then you can
fudge it a bit, and the "kck it straight n a crosswind " thing. Which is
only the case for some airplanes and even then is widely misunderstood.
In the former instance, the main reason we get stabilised is because in
big swept wing airplanes, it can be hard to control the speed and rate
of descent fo ra couple of reasons. One, the swept wing has a very flat
drag curve, and two, the engines are sometimes slow to spool up (not so
much wiht newer engines) however, you can still do practice deadstick
landings all day in them if you want. They will do them, no problem. We
don't, though. however, n a light single, I think it's a very good idea
to at least keep it on the high side if nothing else and even better,
leave the final a deadstick every time. And yes, I've fown Bonanzas,
Commanches, all sorts. They are all better off doing approaches like
this, at least once you pass below the altitude where all other options
are closed off to you.
Even in light twins, guys tend to drag them in over the fence if the
field is anyways short. Completely unneccesary and very poor technique..

The "they don't put a wing down in a crosswind" thing is complete crap.
There are several jets you have to land wings level (and th ercoupe, of
course, shudder! ) and they are most of th efour engine thingies, the
727 and DC-9/MD80s
( very low wing and outboard flaps) and a couple of other for various
ground contact reasons.
However, corrct technique for this entails crossing the controls as you
would as if you had just done a slip to touchdown and maintaining it
though the landing roll. It feels awful when you do it first, but you
get the hang of it. If you land some of the long ones, like the 727 in a
max crosswind and the runway is narrow, you are acually out over the
edge of the runway as you touch down! You have to squeeze the nose
straight while it is still in the air whilst adding oppistie aileron.
Feels funny but works.
Everything else I've flown lands much better with a wing down and the
fuselage tracking straight down the runway. No question about it. In
fact the autoplit will cross the controls from about 300 feet down when
you're autolanding in most of them nowadays.

End rant.