On Jan 10, 10:37*am, wrote:
On Jan 10, 11:08*am, Andy wrote:





On Jan 10, 8:22*am, wrote:

I don't want to tell you what your own proposal was, but I didn't
understand it that way!

What I said was -
The rule should define the "front half" as the semicircle of the
start
cylinder that has its diameter normal to the line between the start
point and the first turn point. *A valid start would only be given
for
an exit from the front half.

Note the last sentence.

There may be a trade off between making a rule that defines an area
easily visualized by the pilot and, on the other hand, is easily
scored. *Having a fixed semicircle define the full score start area,
but allowing starts behind that area, seems to lead to a complex first
leg distance computation. *The RC proposed rule has a very simple
first leg distance computation but arguably a problem with area
visualization.

Making the area fixed and the only valid start area solves both
problems but has a severe penalty if the pilot starts behind the valid
area. *I don't think its a better answer than "start anywhere".

Andy

Ah. *I had what I thought was a better interpretation of your idea,
but on reflection it suffers from a lack of simplicity.

A half cylinder start area is asking for problems. *I don't trust
airspace depictions on my PDA to the level of accuracy required... and
in any case I can't see making life so difficult for the guy that is
using a GPS nav without graphic display (or the guy whose graphic
display locks up...).

Why not define the start as the last exit from the beer can, do away
with the two minute altitude rule and instead required the start to be
under a specified GPS ground speed (100 kts, for instance)? *This is
an idea, not a fully thought out proposal.

You could "start anywhere", you'd have ample incentive to stay clear
of the gate area if you start out the back, don't get screwed if you
do fall back into the cylinder, and excess speed could be penalized in
a fashion that provided discouragement but not outright
disqualification for offenders. *It would make for a very simple rule.

-T8

Evan,

Glad to see you are coming around to my thinking.

The only thing we need to do to fix the Start Anything rule is reduce
the time to one minute. This is short enough to discourage reentering
the cylinder unless you plan to restart, long enough that you can't
carry speed out of the start and if you accidentally nick it you won't
get a penalty.

The bump and run concern is purely theoretical and the more I think
about it, it will not work. Here are the reasons why the bump and run
idea wont work:

1. From 10 miles you have to be able to know where the gaggle is and
to be high enough to not spend more than two minutes (currently) below
the top.

2. This assumes you can time it so that you get there and there is
still a gaggle there. If the gaggle is there are you going to bump
and run so now you are the rabbit for the hounds? Tactically it makes
no sense. The tactical pilots are going to hang around the front and
watch for the leaders to leave and run with that pack.

3. If your goal is to dolphin through the gaggles that are marked you
are going to get a penalty for unsafe flying.

Bottom line is the proposed rules is not needed and is protecting us
from a non-event and just adding extra complexity to the rules.

The rules should be the 2008 start anywhere with maybe a reduction in
the time required below the top to 1 minute. So much simpler than the
proposed idea.

Judge Learned Hand wrote "Right conclusions are more likely to be
gathered out of a multitude of tongues, than through any kind of
authoritative selection.''


TT