On Jan 25, 7:22*pm, AK wrote:
On Jan 25, 7:44*pm, Kevin Christner wrote:





Would likely be declared on a high wind day, especially if downwind
launches became necessary. *This would highly favor the motor crowd,
especially penetrating upwind.

On Jan 25, 7:40*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:

On Jan 24, 3:59*pm, AK wrote:

Nationals can now declare a “No ballast” day without all pilots
agreeing.

A motor glider or a heavy glider will have a considerable advantage
especially on a good day if this rule is not modified.

Here is an example, imagine Diana 2 (420 lb empty with instruments)
competing with ASG-29 15 m (620 lb empty with instruments). A no
water
day was called.

Wing loading for each glider in a typical configuration (180 lb pilot
weight)

Diana 2 – 6.45 lb/sq foot.
ASG-29 15 m – 8.08 lb/sq foot

Wouldn't a "No ballast" day be declared on a weak day, thereby hurting
the high wing loading birds rather than giving them an advantage?

Matt

Diana 2 pilot does not have a chance. This glider needs some water to
fly at the same wing loading as other heavier gliders. There are more
examples I could give but I think my point is clear.

Please put a restriction on wing loading for those days when no tow
pilot wants to tow a fully loaded glider rather than declaring a “No
ballast day”.

The intention of this rules was good no one wants to lose a day, but
please don't create losers.

AK

Exactly that is my point! High density altitude also comes to mind as
a reason for “No ballast” day.

Different glider/pilot/engine configurations on such a day can create
winners and losers.

The wing loading differences for different pilot/glider/engine
configuration can easily be as high as 1.5-2 lb/sq foot. That is not a
small number when flying at Nationals.

For now I have no chances to be at the top of the pack at Nationals so
this rule will not affect me greatly however any unfairness is wrong
and I will simply not participate in a contest where this rule could
be applied.

AK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I believe that this is really targeted for an area like
Mifflin. What we get are heavy rain showers during the morning that
are pasing thur, with late day clearing. With the late day clearing
and now good ridge winds, a late day ridge task can be called, but
grid time is short and the window of opportunity is not large. Since
Mifflin needs a water tanker for ballast, and the fire dept. mans it,
they just can't sit out at the airport all day. Also, because of the
short window, we can't really rig in heavy rain and wind.
So, to get in a day, to expedite us into the air to fly, might
require this. When you have 50 gliders to water, the time involved is
close to 2 hours. The tanker has 4 hoses and the hanger has 2. @15
minutes per glider so now you get the picture of what is faced. You
also can carry non disposable balance.
My ASG 29/15 empty is 585 pds w/instruments and 1 battery. So, the
wing loadings are closer together than you post. I do know the CD's
from around the country, and will say that what they won't do is call
a task which is not fair or equal to all. Getting in a contest is
sometimes whats required and all the entrants I know will support
this, as the time required to run around and get everybody's yes or
no, we would lose the window.
When I fly in the 18 Meter configiration, I do add non
dispostable ballast to get me up to my legal weight of 1322 lbs. I
don't have a center tank and with my weight with full tanks only gets
to 1290 lbs. I have been weighted many times.
The days I speak of are really few and far between in Mifflin. Maybe
its better to think out the problem of a light wing loading and find a
simple fix than it is to miss out on a great afternoon of racing.
As far as density altitude, I do also fly out of the highest
density altitude airports seen in this country. I do this with full
water, at Max. gross, and yes, the climb is slow, but safety is not
compromised.
Passing up a National or Regional is experience that really
should not be missed. No matter where the guys or girls are at on the
score sheet, we need to remember where we have been, what we are doing
and where we are going.

I have seen and read alot of posts on RAS, including mine and I
do try to see everyone's view, but, as I spoke with someone last night
and then gave it some more thought today, I will add that this is the
USA and I have come to now believe I see nothing wrong with the IGC
adopting our rules for world competition.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe, #711.