At 11:00 03 July 2009, Del C wrote: (Snip)
The training glider that has killed the
most pilots in spin related accidents in the UK is easily the Puchacz,
latest count about 14 I believe.

And no positively identified cause, the conclusion has always been that
the spin in was caused by an error of skill by the pilot but that is
difficult to confirm. It could be that under certain loading conditions
the Putchaz is irrecoverable from a spin, we may never know for certain.
We do know that the Putchaz is a very dangerous glider, and has been
involved in more than it's fair share of accidents.

You are getting into the debate about whether deliberate spin training
kills more people than accidental spins.

There is no debate, more people are killed in deliberately induced spins
than in accidental ones and yet people still deliberately spin at
ridiculously low altitudes, and by that I mean below 2500ft.

This despite the fact that knowing the spin recovery procedure would be
unlikely to help in the most common spin, that off the final turn. The
only thing that would help there is spotting the impending spin before it
happened but little or no emphasis is placed on this in current training.
We have the situation where the most life threatening situation is not
addressed by proper training and an aspect, which gives an instructor the
opportunity to scare his pupil witless, is very well covered.
Current spin training is more about addressing the needs of the
instructors than about addressing the need of their pupils. I would
suggest that not commencing spin recovery procedure in a low spin, as off
the final turn, would be more likely to save your life than getting part
way through the recovery.

More emphasis is needed on recognition of the lead up and prevention, if
that was done properly then we might improve things. By all means teach it
but rather than checking recovery every year check the ability to recognise
and prevent. Less risk and the potential of greater benefit, it would also
reduce the need for clubs to own the potentially lethal Putchaz as the
recognition and prevention could be done in any two seater.