On Oct 20, 5:38*am, VH_VH wrote:
On Oct 20, 1:07*pm, PK wrote:





On Oct 19, 4:02*pm, VH_VH wrote:

I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.

It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
(about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
in good faith.

In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
manufacture.

On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.

After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.

What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.

I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
their own issues with Ales.

It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
over AUD$5000 from me.

Bob

The moral of the story.....Pay with a credit card and you may have
some recourse. PeterK- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for your input and hindsight is always 20/20. However there is
more here than the issue of the method of payment and I was certainly
unaware of any credit card option with AMS. Looking at the bigger
picture, we as the gliding community see many manufacturers struggling
and coming up with new and creative ways to generate revenue or at
least cover their costs. The last thing we need is a corrupt operator
thrown into the mix and, as a matter of principle, we need to stick
together and make it known in no uncertain terms that this behaviour
is unacceptable, will not be tolerated, and that any money owed must
be returned to the rightful owner and without delay.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In December 2009, I took my ASW20BL to slovenia from the UK for a
complete refinish. It was the first refinish AMS-Flight did for a UK
glider (im told). It was there for about 12 weeks. Communicatrion
was a little tricky but I later realised that there are not alot of
staff and Ales seems to do alot of the work himself and is not really
office bound. When we went to collect the glider, it wasnt quite
ready so wwe had to wait for about 12 hours while they finished it.
Ales and his staff worked really hard that day until very late at
night to get it finished. Overall, I am really pleased with the
refinish however, the wings have discoloured slightly and we are
currently waiting for a response from AMS Flight as to what they are
going to do about it under their 2 year warranty.

We are also still waiting for the new instrument panel to be returned
to us. Ales said he was going to try and modify it when it originally
didnt fit the glider.

I do not wish to influence people but all I would say about AMS Flight
is, they seem to do a good job, we paid all the money up front for the
regel due to VAT issues in the UK (to save money), and the job was
done when they said it would be. I cannot explain the communication
issue but Ales does speak good english so I would suggest telephoning
him rather than email!

Good luck

Regards

Terry Hatton