On Jul 23, 7:37*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Jul 24, 6:09*am, BobW wrote:

1) the 'passage' (hidden assumption: aerotow) through 'Never-Never-land'
surrounding many (most?) gliderports, which is to say airports surrounded by
mature trees/forests/swamps/houses/communities/killer
sagebrush/arroyos/vertical rocks/etc.;

I've only flown gliders from about twenty airfields/farm strips in New
Zealand and the USA but I can not think of ANY OF THEM that had such a
never-never-land, and I would not be comfortable flying from one.

In every case there has been either:

1) landable areas beyond the fence, or
2) by the time you get near the fence you're high and fast enough to
turn 90º to a crosswind landing or turn 180º to a downwind.

Once past the fence, it has always been the case that either the tug
climbs well enough that you can fly straight out and gliding back only
ever gets easier, OR the tug orbits close to the field until you're at
500ft or so.

Typical tows at most places are about 600 fpm at 65 - 70 knots in a
two seater. That's around 11:1 or 12:1. The lowest performance gliders
I've ever flown do around 28:1 (Blanik, K7, K13), and most gliders are
either more like 40:1 or climb a lot faster, or both.

Thus, in my experience, it is the case that a straight out tow allows
the glider to return to the field at any point. A wind only makes that
easier.

How do you guys get a never-never-land? I can see it could happen if,
say, you had a glider that only does 20:1 and a tug that climbs less
than 300 fpm but ... gah! ... you don't have to do that!

At my home field things did start to get a bit dodgy at one point due
to fields turning into houses and a switch from light Blaniks to heavy
Twin Astirs. We solved that by selling the Cubs and buying Pawnees.

If you're flying from somewhere with a never-never-land then I very
strongly suggest that you do something about it. Get more length, cut
down obstacles, get a more powerful tug, or better performing gliders.

Try adding 5,000' or more density altitude to your experiences for a
start and you may find yourself operating in a different regime. Even
with the most powerful Pawnee available. Certainly easy to be towed
out of comfortable glide range...

Darryl