View Single Post
  #8  
Old January 8th 12, 12:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chris Nicholas[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 197
Default Rules for Logging Glider PIC Time

Further to what Martin G, and B4, have written about the UK, there is
a bit more to it.

I was told that way back, when the CAA took charge of such matters and
the ANO (Air Navigation Order) first got written (or at least by the
CAA drafting people), the power world decided that P2 could only apply
in the case of a multicrew (by design) aircraft, as B4 said. The RAF
stuck to their historic practice of P1 and P2.

The UK power world does, I believe, have a situation during some form
of checks where both pilots can claim the entire flight as P1 (or
PIC). I am not an expert on that, but it looks rather like Marcus’s
case: “-you log PIC time when flying dual while receiving instruction
by a licensed (and current) instructor - e.g. prep for commercial
licence check ride, BFR check flights etc.”. (I don’t think Marcus
clarified this, but the instructor can also log it as P1, or PIC,
AIUI. If not correct for UK power, somebody please correct me.)

The BGA, which was self-governing and outside the CAA reach, stayed
with RAF practice, and still does. (I expect this will change when
EASA rules, perhaps from Appril onwards. Whatever – I know of no
published decision to change it, yet.)

There are other differences. In the power world, PIC can change during
a flight, without an intervening landing. In gliding, we do not (I
have never heard of anyone trying it.) I was commissioned by the BGA
to do a report on this and other P1/PIC/P2/PUS issues, during which I
asked the CAA for their opinion. Two different officials gave two
totally opposing answers, but the power way is widely practised and
nobody objects.

Another issue I covered was safety pilots. A safety pilot does not
have to be P1/PIC.

Also, the most highly ranked pilot does not have to be P1/PIC – it
depends on the prior agreement and/or the purpose of the flight. For
instance, I (non-instructor) might fly with an instructor – but we
could agree that I am P1/PIC and he/she is P2, if it is a non-
instructional flight. If push were to come to shove in that situation,
I really would have the right and duty to stay in command (unless
incapacitated). An example might be a private, non- instructor owner,
flying his/her own high performance 2-seater, cross country in which
he /she is well qualified and experienced, with an instructor who only
did one cross country, 20 years ago (for Silver badge), and has never
done a real field landing. Who is properly PIC?

It also does not depend on seat position. PIC must have adequate
controls. In many 2-seaters that can be either back or front (tandem)
or either side, if controls permit. It is usual for the PIC to have
been checked out to be competent as PIC in that seat position, but
even there perhaps there are exceptions – e.g. the first time a new
type is available. I have known situations (not UK, but it might have
happened here too) where two instructors flew with each other to gain
or regain currency, taking turns as to which would check out whom.

If you want a private version of my paper, email me to ask for it. It
is not for putting into the public domain, but covers a lot more than
you have asked about.

Chris N.