"Buzzer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:17:08 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Actually, Guy, the man said the C models also got it.

Boyne doesn't, which was the source I used. He may have missed or
forgotten
them, or FAS may be wrong.

I would think they were not moding the Cs since some were already in
the boneyard. I base that on Glasgow getting one in from the boneyard
around 64/65 for training flights only.

Baugher seems to indicate the C's continued in operational service until as
late as 1966 with the 99th BW out of Westover in MA
(http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b52_8.html ). IAPR (Spring 2003 issue)
indicates that "some" C models ended up receiving the TA radar, but it is
unclear as to when the last C gave up its SIOP mission. Baugher indicates
that the development and fielding of the TA radar was apparently
problematic, but goes into no detail on that subject.


FAS as a source is not
infallible, though in this case it remains unclear a sto which models
got it
and when they actually got it. If the aircraft did start getting T/A
radars
in 1961, it would have taken some time to outfit the remainder of the
fleet,
which IIRC was pretty darned big at that time.

Given SAC's priority at the time, I doubt it would take all that long, as
our
ICBM force was still mostly Atlas and Titan, and Polaris was just
entering
service.

Your list also does not
include the E models, which continued in service until the '69-70
timeframe.

And it should. Brain fart.

E came out of the factory with TA according to one source on the
internet..

Baugher indicates the E's had the improved Doppler radar for use in low
level navigation, but not the terrain avoidance radar. It appears that
different sources are (again) providing somewhat different pictures of what
was included, with IAPR, in its Summer 2003 issue, including a list of low
level nav aids that were included in the original production (and apparently
were so unreliable the system had to be completely rebuilt, a task that took
until 1964 to complete) which does not include the TA radar. But IAPR also
says the E was the first model that was intended from the start to be a low
level operator, so the TA may have been included and the sources just failed
to mention it.

Brooks


Another interesting item is the fact that throughout the sixties a
large
number of B-52's retained the silver upper/anti-flash white lower
finishes,
which was hardly a very good scheme for a low altitude penetrator. This
all
leads me to suspect that the "everything went to low level at the
beginning
of the sixties" bit may be another case similar to the old "all the
B-29's
stripped their armament per LeMay's orders" story--only partly correct,
in
other words.

The low level seems to have started even earlier, perhaps by 1959 which
is when
the first BUFF crashed due to structural failure (horizontal stab) while
in low
altitude flight. The ACR allowed them to go somewhat lower in worse
conditions
in relative safety. Boyne shows the D (presumably with ACR) capable of
going
down to 500 feet, the G/H (presumably with EVS) able to go down to 300
ft.

500 ft. was mentioned at the crash site of the B-52D in NE Montana in
1965. There was a B-52D off in the distance that was going to fly the
profile of the one that crashed (hopefully he was going to clear the
hill though!). I missed out on the thing roaring overhead because they
cancelled due to weather.

As an aside, RAF Vulcans went over to low-level from mid-63 on, according
to the
only source I have handy, Robert Jackson's "V-Bombers," but didn't get
their TA
(book says TF, but I'm sceptical) radars until a couple of years later
(trials
in 1966, so after that). There were certainly RAF a/c which received the
low-altitude camo before they got the TA radar (I'm looking at pictures
of two).

As to repainting the SAC BUFFs, I wonder how critical it was considered,
given
their (presumed) night/bad-weather mission and the availability of Hound
Dog
(which doesn't seem to have been camo'ed).

No camo Dogs or aircraft at Fairchild when we were TDY there from
Glasgow in 1964? Glasgow never carried Dogs. Just BIG bombs until Big
Belly.

I suspect repainting was done when
the next scheduled depot overhaul came around, while the radar could be
added at
the base itself or during a short depot visit. Painting a BUFF strikes
me as a
bit more of an endeavor than painting a fighter, and those usually had to
go
through IRAN to get re-painted. I think the Big Belly Ds used in SEA
were the
first to get black undersides, with the SIOP dedicated a/c retaining
white
undersides but acquiring camo tops.
Now you've got me curious as to when the
first camo BUFF appeared. Bob, any idea when you first saw/worked on
one?

Ds at Glasgow came out of Big Belly black. Probably first one around
1965. Wing deployed to SEA around Sep 1966 so they must have done the
wing by then.

I think the upper camo on the H was in place when I went back to SAC
around 1976 at K.I.