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Old May 3rd 04, 11:00 PM
JDupre5762
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It's equally possible that it's just a mistake. Even assuming Spector's
count has
been decreased (which AFAIK hasn't happened),


SNIP

Are you sure that the claim wasn't for Shalmon as the number 2
Mirage/Nesher ace?


From: Guy Alcala


The captions and the text in Shlomo Aloni's book Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces
clearly state that Avraham Shalmon is the number 2 scoring ace with 14.5
victories. He doesn't specify Mirage/Nesher though the book and its list of
aces only considers aces that flew the delta wing types. Aloni mentions
Spector as a double ace with 12 victories some of them scored on the Phantom.
The list in the appendices shows Spector with 8 kills on Mirages and only 4 on
the Phantom.
Asher Snir is listed with 13.5 victories the same as in Peter Mersky's book
Israeli Fighter Aces.

I received an e mail from someone calling himself July, apparently responding
to my first post on this thread, who states that the Israel Air Force
Historical Branch is constantly reviewing and updating the status of claims and
losses and that this branch has determined that 3 of Spectors shared claims
should be disallowed because the aircraft involved were already dead, I assume
that means the pilots had ejected, or Spector did not fire the killing shot.
The Historical Branch also credits Spector with only 12.5 victories. The
writer says that Spector does not dispute these findings.

However in the same email the writer offers that Giora Even's score is actually
19 and that Asher Snir's is 17 and Yftach Spector's is 15.5. So I am not any
more informed than before.

If you start to play with the numbers then 3 shared claims equals 1.5 victory
credits and using Spector's previously accepted score he would still have 14
kills or should have always been credited with only 14.

There are other discrepancies in Aloni's book versus Mersky's book or David
Lednicer's List of Attributed Israeli Victories as well such as reducing Oded
Marom from 11 to 9 but increasing Yehuda Koren from 9 to 10.5.

The e mailer also mentions that the Hitorical Branch is coming out in a year or
two with the definitive history of the Mirage in Israeli service. So that at
least will be something to look forward too.

BTW the book Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces is excellent filled with great
photos many of which I have never seen before and filled with lots of
interesting information. I guess the scores of aces will forever be subject to
adjsustments.

John Dupre'