On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 12:09:26 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Interesting discussion,

IMO, the tactical advantage FLARM provides contest pilots during competition is being highly over-rated here. The "problem" is (and always has been) that A) not everyone has one, B) wants to buy one or c) is able to efficiently process the information available. I see FLARM (tactically) as just another small variable in the equation of flying performance.

It can easily hurt as much (or more) than it can help. Nobody seems to mention this possibility. Hint, hint...maybe you want people to try and leech with FLARM and fail or at least degrade. Hmm.

I currently have an "economy" contest set up...Brick-SN10-Oudie with a separate FLARM view display. A "funny guy" (he knows who he is) recently referred to my panel as a beat up WWII fighter. He's right! My panel is clearly not a great combination for efficiently tracking FLARM targets, analysing climb rates, etc. I don't know the full capabilities of the LX9000 or ClearNav. I do understand that their presentations are more (FLARM) information "rich." One good thing I see about a potential U.S. stealth mode rule is that the real or perceived advantage of these advanced soaring computers (in terms of FLARM based situation awareness) would be reduced or eliminated.

The real advantages of FLARM tracking (as I see it) is not climb rates. I would not trust the number anyway. I want to see the other potential gliders climbing and see the actual cloud they are under, etc. It's just not as simple as that pack has 3 knots and the other has 5...lets go to the 5!

For me, the ability to identify individual "key" pilots in the pack ahead (or behind) and "bonus" identification of gliders that I would have otherwise missed if I had not seen a FLARM "blip" and started searching in the exact right spot are the practical advantages that FLARM provides. It is very hard to calculate the value of these capabilities.

My actual FLARM reception range has been 1-3 miles (3 at absolute most). My antennas are well installed, blah, blah, blah. I therefore leave my FLARMview range at 1 mile so that I have a good resolution for "close in" gliders. In other words, the long range value is so consistently low that a greater range setting almost always pointless. Apparently others are seeing more as in my opinion 1 mile is fairly low value tactically. I usually see these gliders far earlier than I see them on FLARM.

While managing the available FLARM information well can provide value, my experience is that this is rarely a "great" value. In fact, it is usually a distraction to put effort into trying.

With that (my belief that others are likely gaining more from the available FLARM information than I am) I would (selfishly) be happy to see the requirement of a stealth mode at future US (or FAI) contests. But overall I have concluded that the value FLARM provides is highly, highly over-rated.

Finally, for whomever said (last few posts) the FAI World Championship Level requires FLARM leeching proficiency to be successful...please expound with specific information on how you reached these conclusions. Do you have a list of specifics? Who gave you this list? What experience do you have?

Sean
7T

Hi Sean, it's andy (ND) brayer. hobbs, asw 20, young guy.

You might have taken my words too literally. my meaning is not that one must use "flarm leeching" to it's fullest extent in order to be world champion.. on the contrary, and with the understanding that you know all of this already; I think that in order to win, you need something else, something intangible, raw unadulterated talent. but that alone doesn't win it. i think we all agree that at the world level a completely individualistic approach is ineffective anymore, and that you are giving something up by flying as a lone wolf. as such, and in conjunction with sound team flying tactics, the information that can be garnered through complete use of flarm's capabilities is probably better considered than not. so while i don't have first person experience on a world level, or an actual list of specifics blessed by kawa, meuser, or sommer themselves, I do think the results of the team flying/information sharing mentality speak for themselves. to me--and i daresay others with a more impressive competitive resume--those results ought to include the intelligence gathered through complete use of flarm's capabilities. it does seem like leeching to be able to chose one thermal over another based on the fact that you know that frenchman is climbing in 6 knots, but the spaniard is only climbing in 4. now, from what i understand you say it isn't quite as accurate as that, and i accept that. on the other hand, i have heard from others who shall remain nameless that it is and that they've seen that movie played out.

Maybe the information gathered from flarm is overrated, maybe it isn't. who can say for sure? these are matters of opinion. i'm not sure whether i agree with you 100%, or not at all.

what is your assessment about what i've said?

andy
(ND)