Example: If you start 3 minutes late on a 300 minute task (assume thats the winners time on an AT or the AAT time...) then you are only taking a 1% penalty (if any penalty at all really) if you finish in 303 minutes and fly the same speed. 10 points on a 1000 point day. This of course entirely discounts the advantage of being 3 minutes behind a strong pilot, easy to catch at this range if you are in a position to do so.

Or....if you start 30 minutes late on a 300 minute task you only have a 10% penalty. 100 points. A more substantial penalty but, lets face it, 30 minutes (after 30 minutes of open time) is an eternity. If the majority of the class can start but you cannot for 30 minutes after a 30 minute window is agreed upon and opened, its not a rules problem.

The penalty for starting late is still fairly minuscule even if the task is only 150 minutes long. 10% for 15 minutes. And you still have the advantage of catching up to all the gliders ahead.

The point of the rule is to make it smart to get into a decent position and GO. Messing around is far less valuable as the end of the window approaches. If you play the game and get caught in a spot where you cannot start perfectly...TOUGH! You have to take an imperfect start or you wait around for one and risk loosing significant time. This is a beautiful solution in my eyes.

Also, this is how all other true RACING sports are played, with the added exceptional freedom of a 30 minute!!! window...AN ABSOLUTE ETERNITY!

The tax idea is just too complex. Its ticky-tacky. I don't like it. Sorry Andy. 30 minutes is plenty of time to start. Or go ahead and make the window 1 hour.

With that...are you onboard now with a start gate time limit considering how tiny the penalty of starting behind the window really is? Its not really ever 100% unless you stay in the start cylinder until sunset ;-). And with all the other advantages of forcing the field out on course sooner than they typically would be with the current free start rule (more racing, less dangerous interactions, less screwing around)...?

JOHN C: I feel that the start gate time limit should be used at nationals first because thats where the real problem is. No need to trail this rule at a regionals. Just as the boys (and girls) in Elmira went with Stealth Mode at the recent 15m nationals...we need a bold leader to take the bull by the horns and go for it. The current start anytime you want program: high speed flap 1 circling at 120 knots for 30-60 minutes with gliders leaving and entering from all directions, pulling spoilers and coming down thru the high speed gliders while looking at your stopwatch, every task, etc is pretty problematic. Personally, I would like to spend as much of that time flying better, longer tasks as possible. The way to do that is to take away the freedom to wait around indefinitely...and reasonably limit the start gate time window.

Sean
7T

On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 9:03:21 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2015 at 3:54:48 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
I would love to see this adopted in SSA contests. It makes great sense to me.

We tried to get some interest in this proposal a year or two ago. I had the same reaction -- on a reasonably consistent day in which most people can be ready to start, it would get us all out on course and end a lot of leeching and start roulette.

To be clear, the proposal is that the CD announces a "last start time" half hour or so after gate open. You can still start whenever you want, but if you start after last start time your start time is the last start time.

This was in part to accommodate the then groundswell for Grand Prix, as well as the big concern over gaggling and leeching that we see boiling up in the flarm debate. However, it died on the vine somehow with no interest.. Perhaps we'll try again and see if anyone can be talked in to running a regional this way. A poll topic for sure.

John Cochrane BB

I'd suggest a small modification that would make this more palatable: After the "last start time" expires, let's begin taxing the contestant at say 10% instead of 100%. That would be 1 second tax per 10 seconds transpired. It seems like 10% is enough to get most everyone out on course yet not completely shaft the poor sap who can't get up or has a relight or has an instrument problem and is late starting. I believe that I read a variation of this idea on a previous post - I think it was 9B.