On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 12:01:13 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Friday, September 22, 2017 at 11:48:33 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
Darryl,

You said "The TN72 does not meet TSO-C145 requirements (so can't be used for ADS-B Out in experimental aircraft where you want to use it to meet 2020 carriage requirements, in the case of gliders can't be used to meet requirements in the few areas where exemptions don't cover)."

For those of us who cannot keep up, would you kindly list the requirements where the exemptions don't cover?

Many thanks!
-John

John

Start thinking more like a lawyer. Since gliders have broad ADS-B Out carriage exemptions in the areas those exemptions apply they remove the need for you to have ADS-B Out so by definition there is no requirements specific to *those areas* that apply.

The regulatory issue is if you have a certified aircraft, regardless of where you intend to or actually fly it the install and equipment has to meet 2020 carriage mandate requirements. That brings in the requirements for a TSO-C145 GPS source (e.g. a TN70 not TN72), and other things like excludes using a Trig TT-21.

Darryl

14CFR 91.225 makes it mostly clear. Except I am hesitant to quote it again became it may yet again lead to lots of 10,000' confusion (just knock it off, gliders can operate above 10,000' without ADS-B Out).

But basically in a glider you can't fly without a compliant ADS-B out system in

Class B or C airspace, and

Anywhere below that top of Class B or Class C airspace or 10,000 feet MSL above that airspace, whichever is lower. Folks need to watch this, no clipping under or over (unless you are over 10,000' and above the airspace) corners of class B or C airspace.

This is the same as transponder requirements and you should really not be in those areas today without a transponder. Folks who fly gliders near controlled airspace should think about this.

And in all it's regulatory glory.... (yes OK gliders also need ADS-B Out in the Gulf of Mexico ADS-B surveillance area, if you out there in a sailplane you may have more problems than ADS-B Out compliance. But hey fly across the coastline in that area without a complaint ADS-B Out and you are violating 14CFR 91.225).


14CFR 91.225
....
(d) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the following airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that meets the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Class B and Class C airspace areas;

(2) Except as provided for in paragraph (e) of this section, within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 to this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(3) Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL;

(4) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and

(5) Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.

(e) The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders. These aircraft may conduct operations without ADS-B Out in the airspace specified in paragraphs (d)(2) and (d)(4) of this section. Operations authorized by this section must be conducted -

(1) Outside any Class B or Class C airspace area; and

(2) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower.