On Monday, August 27, 2012 6:01:52 PM UTC-7, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Sunday, August 26, 2012 12:11:45 AM UTC-4, Jp Stewart wrote:

From TA's Dansville contest write-up:



"Unfortunately, we were also saddened to hear of yet another apparent stall-spin fatality; Jim Rizzo, Finger Lakes club president and FAA Designated Examiner for the area was killed when his glider crashed into a farmer’s field not far from the Dansville airport. Jim was not part of the contest and was just flying locally when the accident occurred. All we know is what the farmer said (and this is 3rd hand to me) that apparently Jim was trying to thermal away from a low altitude and spun in (sound familiar? – it should – this is the 3rd almost identical fatality this season here on the east coast)."



http://soaringcafe.com/2012/08/day-6...ille-region-3/







JP

I believe it is all based in denial.



I've come to believe that pilots simply do not recognize or admit to themselves (in the "applies to me today, on this flight, in this thermal" sense) that below a specific AGL, regardless of their skill as pilots, if an incipient spin happens for whatever reason, they WILL hit the ground. Thus they (we) do not recognize that below that AGL, we have chosen to change the nature of the game to one of betting our lives.



For what reason are you (me) betting our life on the flight today?



If you do not know this AGL number empirically for you in your aircraft, you need to figure it out. It would seem unlikely that it could ever be below 500 feet, allowing for the fact that few of us are perfect pilots with negligible reaction times.



It doesn't matter that we are "over a good field" or "in the pattern" or whatever, the ground is just as hard.



Again, for what reason is your life worth betting today, and do you know when you have placed the bet?



With deepest heartfelt sympathy for this and the other tragic losses this year.



QT

It is worth pointing out that this should also apply when thermaling over mountain terrain. While it is generally obvious that you are getting too low to thermal when you drop below pattern altitude, it is not so obvious when flying over mountain terrain, since you are still high above the surrounding, but maybe only couple of hundred feet above the slope below you. As a result, it is much more common to thermal close to terrain than thermaling too low over a field. This is also where there is much higher chance for an upset due to turbulence.

Ramy