On Nov 10, 9:27*pm, bildan wrote:
On Nov 10, 1:29*pm, BruceGreeff wrote:

On 2010/11/09 11:36 PM, Mike Ash wrote:
Some folk are strange and actually WANT to fly the vintage trainers.

No problem with that. *I like old wooden gliders too. *I just have a
problem with coercing others to fly them if they want something
better. *(A 2-33 isn't 'vintage', it's just old.)

Snip---------

The K21 is a honey to fly, but I wonder about the completeness of
skills it would provide if it were the only trainer used.

Snip---------

As others have pointed out, the K-21 will spin just fine with the CG
aft and weight kits are available just for that purpose. *I find even
with the CG well forward, the ASK-21 clearly exhibits all the pre-
stall/stall behaviors a student needs to learn. *Just asking them to
compare how the K-21 handles at 36Kts vs 42Kts convinces them it flies
a lot better at 42. * It barks, but doesn't bite.

One youngster said in delight, "Hey, it gets wobbley when it's slow
just like a bicycle". *Yup!

The K21 is very stable, normal amount of adverse yaw, no tendency for
any of the controls to overbalance, and slightly lacking in rudder
power - which is one of the reasons why it is so reluctant to spin.
Many heavier pilots could get the impression that if you get a stalled
wing drop, it will always turn into a benign spiral dive. That is why
it is not a very good trainer.

Derek C