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Old November 1st 11, 08:18 PM posted to sci.geo.satellite-nav,rec.aviation.ifr
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Default PRN133 ranging now useable for SoL, at non precision approach level

On Nov 1, 1:18*pm, Alan Browne
On 2011-11-01 09:25 , Alan Browne wrote:

On 2011-11-01 02:34 , macpacheco wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:56 am, Alan
On 2011-10-30 20:08 , HIPAR wrote:

On Oct 30, 4:44 pm, wrote:

NASA JPL operates a Global Differential GPS system with worldwide
coverage. They claim 10cm performance.

'The NASA Global Differential GPS (GDGPS) System is a complete, highly
accurate, and extremely robust real-time GPS monitoring and
augmentation system'.

I believe the John Deere Starfire commercial service is based upon the
NASA system.

Why can't airplanes use it ?

First off it's proprietary - something WAAS/EGNOS avoid. Airlines are
loathe to add equipment and pay operating fees for it. (Not to mention
that JD would have to build (or have an avionics firm design, build and
certify) airborne Starfire receivers.

Secondly, Starfire receivers are L1+L2. More expensive than L1
receivers. L1+L2(codeless) phase comparisons provide for a lot of local
PR correction due to ionospheric delays. The data downloaded by
Starfire is thus limited to non-iono effects (ephemeris error, clock

So, an aviation certified L1/L2 antenna would be needed as well (I don't
know if any exist but surely a military antenna could be put through the
paces for DO-160D and whichever TSO applies to GPS antennas,
appropriately modified to cover L2 reception).

It doesn't provide (I assume) integrity signals - though likely it could
with little additional effort.

Aparently Starfire also uses the WAAS ephemeris/clock data even if it is
not as accurate as Starfire's own eph/clk data.

Finally, there may be various forms of liability issues both on the part
of JD and the national airspace services.

gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.

L2 isn't ARNS protected, so they are forbidden for aviation SBAS

I was just answering HIPAR's general question. The same list applies to
L5 use as well. Of course L5 birds are rare so it will be a long time
before there are enough for actual aviation use.

The only means for IONO corrections on SBAS receivers will be with L1/
L5, both in ARNS protected band, hence the importance of GPS L5
becoming operational for dual frequency SBAS (we might get Galileo
operational prior to GPS L5, and use Galileo dual frequency + GPS
single frequency for EGNOS).

L5 isn't exactly usable yet with all of 2 sats in orbit. Will be a long
wait before any advance with any system. For simplicity sake (a good
thing in avionics) mixing GPS with EGNOS in a system won't be seen in

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *..............

avionics for quite a while yet.

Sorry - meant to say mixing GPS with Galileo.

The FAA stated that GPS L5 WAAS will only be allowed once GPS L5 is
FOC, so 22 GPS launches to go before we get there. This was reiterated
in the current issue of FAA Sat Nav News (issued in the last few

One of the reasons is they will replace the whole thing, all reference
receivers will then work only with L1+L5, all current ground semi
codeless will go at once, so once they migrate to L5 for the ground
infrastructure, even GPS IIR-M will no longer be used for WAAS.

It will be a temporary big step backwards, cause we'll go from using
all operational GPS satellites to using only L5 capable satellites,
reducing from 29-31 operational satellites to 24 initially.

That's stupid in my opinion, but that's their prerogative, they should
include support for L2C for the ground receivers, using L2C for IIR-M
and L5 for IIF + III, that would keep 29+ birds usable at all times.
And Galileo + Glonass should be rolled into WAAS as well.

That's only for aviation, other receivers outside the FAA's authority
could even use semi codeless today with any SBAS.

As far as Galileo or Glonass support for WAAS, theres no word
whatsoever in adding WAAS support for that, but the ARAIM work (which
makes WAAS obsolete) would include multi constellation end user