On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:44:18 PM UTC-5, Bill D wrote:
On Jan 18, 10:27*am, Dave wrote:

On Jan 18, 8:33*am, Bill D wrote:



















On Jan 17, 7:55*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:



On 1/17/2012 6:48 PM, T wrote:



You know that in the US the manual is not required to be on board if

the limitations are properly marked via placards and decals.



XF



That's news to me! Last I read, if it was listed in the TCDS or if the

manual (POH) said it had to be in the glider, then it needs to be in

the glider regardless of what is placarded. And the POH specifies the

minimum placards.



I've been flying gliders in the US since 1976, and I don't recall having

the manual on board ever being a safety or enforcement issue. Does

anyone know of an incident involving having a manual on board?



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what

you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz



Yes. *The question came up in a checkride with an FAA inspector.

AFAIK, all JAR-22 certificated gliders require the AFM (POH) to be on

board. *An Approved Flight Manual (AFM) is actually part of the

glider's certification documentation and the glider must be operated

in strict compliance with it. (FAR 91.309)



A simple solution is to vacuum seal the original manual in clear

plastic after making a copy - then secure it safely in the glider.

The copy can be used for reference and need not be on-board.- Hide quoted text -



- Show quoted text -



14 CFR 91.309 is about glider towing. Maybe you meant 91.9? *Anyway,

it talks about approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manuals. Can a

glider (not an airplane by FAA definition) have an Airplane or

Rotorcraft Flight Manual? *My type certified glider has an approved

"Flight Manual". But not an "Airplane Flight Manual". So maybe 91.9 b

2 applies. It says I can't operate a civil aircraft unless: "For which

an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by § 21.5 of

this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current

approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual

material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof." Does

that mean I have to have everything listed that is available on board,

or any combination I choose?



As for the TCDS, check FAA order 8620.2a dated Nov 2007. *Para 7 says

"Any language on a TCDS, by itself, is not regulatory and is simply

not enforceable. There must be a corresponding rule to make any

language on the TCDS mandatory." You can see the whole thing he



http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...er/8620_2A.pdf



-Dave (not a lawyer)



Yes, 91.9 not 91.309.



91.9 requires the AFM to be on board and that the aircraft be operated

in accordance with it.



8620.21a is referring to "mandatory" service bulletins not being

enforceable.

91.9 refers to an "Airplane" & "Rotorcraft". A Sailplane is neither as it is an "Aircraft". An Aircraft does not have an engine. That is the big difference. 91.9 does not apply to an Aircraft.