On 9/17/2019 6:45 PM, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 3:55:37 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
On 9/17/2019 10:00 AM, wrote:
...I guess you miss the main point of the posts. The point is.... if
you want to get good at any particular aviation skill you have to
practice it a lot. Talk all you want, it is no excuse [substitute?
editorial insertion] for specific experience.

Case in point, all the stall spin accidents that continue to happen.
We have discussed, analysed, surmised, engineered, and dogmatized that
topic to death. But it still is the number one killer. Why? I believe
its because very very very few pilots have taken their bird up at
altitude and practiced practiced practiced. Not incipient entry alone,
but that, AND full rotation, practice and experience again and again
till recognition and recovery becomes automatic. Off field landings are
no different. Even with all that said and tons of practice **** does
happen. Maybe not for the guy who never does more than float around at
the top of a thermal venturing only gliding distance from home field.
But for the guy who is trying to stretch and do something, if he does
enough, he's gonna get bit once in awhile. That includes Kawa, or
Moffat, or any one.

Talking is great and necessary, but doing is a whole lot more
essential.

Apologies if we're not quite beyond RAS' Official "Thread Drift Now OK"
thread-timing mark.

I'm gonna "second" the "practice practice practice" sentiment...as a
worthy thing to do, *regardless* of one's overall/general experience
level, and without knowing Mr. Kawa's specifics (which I assume are well
beyond the Joe SixPack Glider Pilot average).

I saw the results of a(n admittedly) botched approach/touchdown-attempt
in a Phoebus to a shortish, uphill field, soon after cutting the XC cord
myself...and quickly came to the conclusion I was glad I had the
learning experience from someone else's (non-physical-injury)
misfortune/mis-judgements. He got off light...just "the usual cracked
Phoebus wood gear-attach-bulkhead." No less importantly, he learned the
requisite lessons and was happy to share them with fellow club members.
The error which led to the dropped-in-from-"several-feet" arrival crunch
ultimately was running out of airspeed due in no small part to the
optical illusion induced by rounding out too high (becuzza the "higher
than normal" distant horizon against which the roundout height was
judged...since that's what normal landings benefit from) with
insufficient energy to "wait for the ground to arrive under the tire." To
the pilot's serious credit, he figured out what he'd done wrong before
more experienced wisdom was made available to him...

Sh*t does happen, and - arguably - is more likely to on off-field
landings, but cold-blooded review of real-world accidents lead *me* to
conclude (even before I got my license) that the vast majority of
crunches have direct Joe Gliderpilot active contribution(s). So far as
I'm concerned (46+ years of data later), I've never been inclined to
change that opinion.

Practice as if you may need the skills/reaction(s)...because some day you
may...

YMMV, Bob W.


It does absolutely no good to practice something you will never use, which
is a spin recovery from low altitude. The only solution is prevention - if
a particular mistake is going to kill you, you can't do it. Most low
altitude spins are due to uncoordinated flight - mostly misuse of the
rudder because the pilot fears the visual image he gets by a steep bank.

No amount of landout practice is going to prepare you to landing in a field
with unseen obstacles, which is what apparently happened to Kawa. If you
push into an area with poor landing options you should not be surprised
when things turn out badly.

Tom


Hmmm...

I certainly have no quibble with your 2nd paragraph.

But at the risk of descending toward tautology, careful reading of the clip I
seconded doesn't suggest (to me, anyway) the poster was suggesting anyone
practice spin entries/recovery from low altitude; I inferred the poster's
intention was *full* spin practice occur at a safe altitude, so that Joe
Glider Pilot's "mental reflexes" (and by implication, physical responses) move
away from "Holy crap...!" and toward, "Just another 'typical' spin entry and
normal rotation...and I can do what I know needs to be done whenever I darn
well please, and, in a timely manner!" ('Typical' is in quotes because I'm of
the opinion that spins are sufficiently complex aerodynamic phenomena that to
complacently assume they will 'always be normal' is a level of complacency
beyond me...and, I've practiced what I preach.)

Practice - physical, where safely possible, and definitely mental (e.g. how
best to handle safely touching down on an upsloping off-field landing) - is a
good thing, IMO, for every practitioner of the soaring arts.

As always, YMMV.
Bob W.

P.S. Just for the record, one of the things for which I consider practice
entirely unhelpful and unnecessary is bleeding. Another is pattern-height
departures. And below VMC engine-outs in a light twin taking off from a short
field. Ideally, every pilot has such a list. :-)

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