On Friday, 16 August 2013 10:47:16 UTC-6, Sean Franke wrote:
On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:07:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:

Having thought long and hard about this for many years, I'm curious what alternative you guys would prefer.







Unlimited altitude start? Then on blue days you absolutely have to sit with the gaggle for 20-30 minutes to get that last 500 feet. Or, everyone goes off into the clouds (demonstrated fact). It can also be remarkably unfair, when early takeoffs find thermal wave or it takes a long time to get to start altitude.







Limited altitude, no 2 minutes, a la IGC? Back to VNE dives. Or VNE dives after orbiting up in the clouds, a la IGC.







The current system has the advantage that you don't have to do any craziness for competitive reasons. If the max height is set sensibly low enough, as the rules suggest, then orbit above or away from everyone else. When it's time to start, return to the cylinder, climb up and go. Or better yet, stay below, well away from the nutty gaggle, and climb out through the top.







"Start anywhere" adds to the options as you get credit for distance flown and can more easily choose to avoid the big gaggle.







I grant many people still do some silly things, like orbit just below MSH in a big gaggle for half an hour. They don't have to, but they choose to and it's not great.







Still, let's hear a better alternative.







John Cochrane



BB, I'm trying really hard not to get drawn in this again.



Do you think VNE dives and orbiting up into clouds is old school IGC? I haven't experienced that in the last two WGC's. Max height was set a bit above maximum expected altitude. No need to dive. Is it really a problem? Anomaly?



Cloud flying is prohibited under US rules and IGC. At the last WGC gliders were thermalling right near the home field where prohibited before the start. One day the organizers said if you do it from now on there WILL be a penalty. They sent up an observer every day after. Interesting, pilots stopped thermalling right where prohibited. Seems to me if you don't want cloud flying then enforce the rule.



Sean R Franke

To me a lot of the issues being discussed have pro and con factors to them. How you determine which side you lean towards is probably personal experience.

What Sean just pointed out is an important one to me; enforcement. The rules for the USA and IGC are defined in such way, IMO, so that software can be used for enforcement. Have scored USA and WGC contests this can easily, well kinda sorta almost, be accomplished with existing software solutions.

Having to provide observers or enforcers in the air is most likely prohibited, financial and resource wise, for anything but a WGC

Carry on