CTR,
You seem to be quite challenged finding sources for the crappy performance
of tilt rotors, so let me help. Unlike you, who are merely a Bell designer,
I found these in the first hit on Yahoo, looking for "BA-609
specifications." This is a difficult thing, Carlos, so I don't expect you
to be able to do it, especially if it might prove you wrong, yet again. I
have taken the liberty of publishing some of the multitude of data that
shows only 750 nm range, as currently published in the 609 brochure,
available for download he

http://www.bellagusta.com/pdf/BA609_2004.pdf

Quote:
Maximum Range* (no reserve) 750 nm
*With auxiliary fuel at MTOW-ISA Pending Certification

Also, please read the slide below that has been repeatedly briefed by your
company to the US Coast Guard, showing 250 nm radius with some short loiter
and hover, probably equalling about 650 NM of range with reserve (the same
as 750 without reserve, but with aux tanks.) Note the fact that the takeoff
will be a STOL takeoff or a Cat B, indicating the aircraft is out of poop at
the takeoff, just as I said it would be.
http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/HV609_slide.gif

This Bell slide was published in lots of places, including several
symposiums where I presented papers. I think you should take the rose
colored glasses off once in a while. If a 609 goes to 1,000 miles, it must
make a rolling takeoff, and must be very much above max gross weight. NOT a
true mission configuration, kimo sabe.

Regarding Cat A, since that is a nice new thing you can question. Since you
have batted ZERO on every other point, you must bring up a new one, a
different one, so that you don't actually have to cede any of the points you
have been proven wrong about, right? No military aircraft is Cat A, and in
fact, Cat A means nothing in the military, so your question is a foolish
one. If you had a flight manual for the Black Hawk you could look up the
single engine climb performance. No, you would have to have someone read it
to you, because it is all a mystery to you, Carlos. Give it a rest. The
Black Hawk has single engine stay up ability for the long range mission,
which I think you are sniffing around.

I added these plots to the tiltrotor comparison slide set, thanks Carlos for
helping me close the confusing points and make the case stronger!

http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/...comparison.pdf

Nick


"CTR" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nick,

I spent two hours over the weekend looking for any information
available to show that the UH-60 can comply with FAA Cat A
requirements. No luck what ever. That is why I thought you might be
able to point me in the correct direction with a link or web site.
Especially with your previous company associations.

The extent of BA609 published range data is as follows:

Maximum Cruise Speed 275 kt 509 km/hr
HOGE(ISA, MGW, AEO) 5,000 ft MSL 1,150 m
Service Ceiling (MCP) (All Engines Operating) 25,000 ft 11,364 m
O.E.I. (ISA, MGW) 12,800 ft MSL 3,866 m
Maximum Range * (no reserve) 1,000 nm 1,852 km
* With auxiliary fuel at MTOW-ISA Pending Certification

You indicated that this 1000 NM range was not possible from a hover,
therefore I merely asked for the source of this information.

As you are aware, my current company employment places restrictions on
any information I can devulge. I can direct people to currently
published data, but I am prohibited from releasing any data that has
not been previously cleared for publication.

I do not know what agreements you have with your previous employer, but
based on your status you are most likely under much looser restrictions
than I.

As a constructive recommendation, if Cat A data is not available on the
UH-60, I was going to suggest that you compare the BA609 to the AB139.
Both are modern verticle lift aircraft designed to FAA Cat A. Plus
both use the same PW engines. In this comparison I would concur that
the 750 NM BA609 range should be used. Since adding extra fuel and
droping below Cat A would be unfair to the AB139.

In regards the CH-53 and V-22 comparison, our differences are much
smaller. Therefore I decided to concentrate on areas of your
presentation that I felt did not necessarily represent a fair
comparison.

Thanks in advance again for any information you can direct me to on
UH-60 Cat A capabilities and take BA609 take off hover range
limitations.

Take care,

CTR