ADSB panel display
Is RAS for the US only? Are you going to build a (fire)wall?
At 21:47 11 October 2018, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 2:30:05 AM UTC-7, Alastair
Lyas wrote:
Might be worth waiting for products combining both ADSB
and=20
Flarm?
The uAvionix SkyEcho 2 is innovative in ways, but to me it has lots
of
limi=
tations and is just not that interesting for the USA glider market at
least=
, which is why I've not mentioned it before on r.a.s. But here
goes...
I always expect there is interesting stuff coming, but folks do
need to
be=
a little careful what they might decide to wait for. Well over a
decade
ag=
o some folks in the Minden area were waiting for mythical UAT
devices that
=
never happened, lots of handwaving not grounded in reality, and in
some
cas=
es owners unfortunately were putting off transponder adoption
because of
th=
at. Let's not repeat anything like that again. And for the SkyEcho 2
we
don=
't need to wait to actually look at what this device does or does not
do
si=
nce documentation has been available for a while. And much of my
comments
b=
elow come from just reading that documentation... but OK, with a
pretty
goo=
d understanding of the underlying technology.
The SkyEcho 2 does not include a FLARM transceiver, so in the
USA today
you=
would be adding a PowerFLARM to it via the FLARMBridge option
to get
FLARM=
capability. That immediately makes it uninteresting to lots of
glider
owne=
rs. According to the documentation the combined devices do *not*
take
ADS-B=
traffic and output that on a FLARM serial protocol link so the usual
traff=
ic displays used in a glider can see them... it seems to only works
the
oth=
er way and takes FLARM traffic and adds it to what is being sent
over
GLD-9=
0 protocol to GA EFBs etc. The reverse of what most glider pilots
want in
a=
cockpit (and what PowerFLARM does today for 1090ES Direct
traffic). And
I'=
ll bet it converts PowerFLARMs more useful traffic warnings say
when
therma=
lling with other gliders into ADS-B warnings going off all the time
nonsen=
se. And given how the FLARM ICD (serial protocol) and GLD-90
works I doubt
=
there is any sane way not to have to do that. But OK, it is what it
is,
and=
very clearly this product is *not* aimed at gliders.
I'm not sure uAvionix have promised USA FCC approval for that
device yet.
I=
expect they are likely to. It's not FCC approved today so can't
even be
ad=
vertised in the USA... which may well be why there is nothing
mentioned on
=
their USA website or why they don't want to irritate the FCC by
even
talkin=
g about it. Having been to the FCC approval mosh pit (I was going
to call
=
it a dance :-)) several times before uAvionix should know very
well what
t=
hey are doing with FCC approval.
Their launch for the product was very UK centric, which was pretty
interest=
ing given how far behind overall ADS-B adoption is in Europe vs.
the USA,
t=
hey seem to be hoping to move that needle, ride on UK interest in
TABS and
=
FIS-B trials and combining some FLARM capability. So quite a
intersting
kit=
chen sink of a product for those uses and very interesting that
uAvionix
ar=
e so growth oriented they are lookin at trying to seed that market.
So then you want to ask if you need an actual PowerFLARM device
to
connect=
to the SkyEcho 2 to do FLARM then what else does the SkyEcho 2
provide,
a=
nd importantly is it a replacement for a transponder?
Importantly the SkyEcho 2 *not* a full transponder but does
implement
TABS/=
TSO-C199 so should provide compatibility with TCAS which is
obviously
impor=
tant. I'd love to see one working. ATC will likely not see that device
howe=
ver and that's going to be an issue in many places near busy ATC
areas.
AT=
C *does* sees Trig transponders running as TABS devices, as they
are full
t=
ransponders underneath the TABS 1090ES Out part. The ATC
visibility part
is=
a large concern for me, especially around places like the Minden
area
whic=
h this thread started with. Without ATC visibility I would not
recommend
th=
at device for use in that area. I'd love to eventually get my hands
on one
=
to confirm and to talk about it with the friendly NOCAL TRACON
tech folks
w=
ho cover the Reno area.
You also can't install this (or any other TABS) device in an aircraft
with
=
an existing Mode C or Mode S transponder.... so can't get visibility
to
ATC=
that way. I can't imagine any glider owner with a transponder in
their
gli=
der who would want to pull it out and replace it with a SkyEcho 2
if that
=
meant losing visibility to ATC... a large part of why they installed
the
tr=
ansponder to start with.
The SkyEcho 2 also won't meet FAA 2020 ADS-B Out
requirements, and
although=
gliders are partially exempt, we still have folks who want to say
overfly
=
Class C airspace (but below 10,000').
It's a little confusing in some many ways the SkyEcho seems more
targeted
a=
t UAVs (or maybe ultralights) but things like UAT In/FIS-B is more
a GA
fea=
ture, so it sure is an intersting product to follow for geeks like me,
but=
kind of wedged into a space between others products, especially
with full
=
Mode S/1090ES Out transponders on one side. We'll see....
Other products with combined ADS-B and FLARM capabilities...
PowerFLARM today does 1090ES In (Direct only, no ADS-R and
TIS-B) and
FLARM=
.. (effectively all PowerFLARM sold in the USA have the 1090ES In
option).=
=20
LXNav PowerMouse is coming, apparently undergoing FCC
approval, with its
A=
DS-B In option it does 1090ES In (but unlike PowerFLARM it
*does* ADS-R
an=
d hopefully TIS-B) and FLARM. (hopefully LXNav will be smart here
and the
P=
owerMouse sold in the USA will all have 1090ES In option).
Other vendors like AirAvionic have new FLARM products with
1090ES In
capabi=
lities coming, I wish they would start describing those product
specs and
c=
apabilities more clearly and ideally clarifying their plans for the
USA
mar=
ket. (their ATD57 display is still great however if anybody wants a
dedicat=
ed FLARM display).
---
Alastair I assume you are in the UK? or elsewhere in Europe. I'm
you not
su=
re why you care about FLARM and the USA with a LXNav 9070, but
if you
real=
ly want to operate in the USA hopefully you have a standard
PowerFLARM
exte=
rnal box (i.e. a model with FCC approval) connected to the 9070.
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