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Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
"Bob Moore" wrote in message
46.128...
....

Mitty, During my 20,000+ hours of flying, I have been a Navy
squadron level Instrument Instructor (P-2V/P-3B), an airline
Flight/Instrument Instructor for 5 years (B-707/B-727) and have
been an FAA Flight Instructor, Instrument-Airplane for the past
37 years. I don't train in IMC!

During my 70 hours of instrument training during Navy flight
training (T-28,T-2V,S-2F), not one minute of it was done in
IMC, and only one long cross country was done under IFR.

The Instructor needs to be in charge of the training flight,
not ATC.

The first phase of instrument training should consist ONLY of
basic control of the airplane by reference to instruments, don't
even turn on the NAV radios until a student can proficiently
fly the patterns contained in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook,
H-8083-15. The older edition has even better patterns.

The next phase consists of VOR radial interception and tracking.
I don't want to even see an approach chart (IAP)until the student
has mastered these plus holding.

Do you hold an FAA Flight Instructor, Instrument-Airplane certificate
and rating to qualify you to make the quoted statement?

And, just who-in-the-hell is "Mitty" anyway? Could be just another
one of the Flight Simmers as far as we know.

Bob Moore
ATP B-707, B-727, L-188
Flight Instructor, Airplane-SE, Instrument-Airplane

Impressive resume Bob; I agree with your premise that the instructor needs
to be in control of the flight training and not ATC. I would also offer for
your consideration that the psychological safety blanket offered by the hood
or the simulator has a tangible impact on the training. The student should
be encouraged to get as much actual time as possible once the fundamentals
have been learned and the polishing phase begins. I think it is a definite
disadvantage if the student only experiences actual IMC until after the ink
is dry on his or her ticket.

If an instructor will not or can not conduct at least the final few hours in
actual conditions (weather permitting) then Mitty has a valid point about
finding another instructor. I think you are both trying to say the same
thing, but you've taken opposite ends of the training time line to use as
your examples.

In a multi-position crewed aircraft like those you mentioned, there is
usually one or more other crew members with actual experience when the new
guy arrives. That luxury doesn't exist in a single-pilot operation making
actual experience even more important.

Jim Carter
Gold Seal CFIAI retired