Possibly I phrased my point wrong or shouldn't have used the word "train," as I
think everything you said is reasonable. One of the most valuable portions of
my "training" were flights shooting multiple practice approaches in IMC. This
"training" occurred after I had gotten decent in flying approaches and it added
the reality of IMC and of talking to Approach while in an instructor-monitored
single-pilot IFR situation. I still seek out opportunities to do this when the
ceilings are near-minimum and often fly with my original CFII. It's a great
tune-up.

When I made the comment I was thinking of stories I have heard where
newly-minted instrument pilots have never flown in IMC and are possibly taught
by newly-minted CFIIs who have little or no IMC experience of their own. The
kind of thing Bob Miller rails against at http://overtheairwaves.com/.

Certainly you don't advocate that someone's first IMC/ATC experience be
post-rating and when they are alone.

On 9/10/2007 1:33 PM, Bob Moore wrote the following:
Mitty wrote
If your instructor won't train you in IMC, you need a different
instructor.

Mitty, During my 20,000+ hours of flying, I have been a Navy
squadron level Instrument Instructor (P-2V/P-3B), an airline
Flight/Instrument Instructor for 5 years (B-707/B-727) and have
been an FAA Flight Instructor, Instrument-Airplane for the past
37 years. I don't train in IMC!

During my 70 hours of instrument training during Navy flight
training (T-28,T-2V,S-2F), not one minute of it was done in
IMC, and only one long cross country was done under IFR.

The Instructor needs to be in charge of the training flight,
not ATC.

The first phase of instrument training should consist ONLY of
basic control of the airplane by reference to instruments, don't
even turn on the NAV radios until a student can proficiently
fly the patterns contained in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook,
H-8083-15. The older edition has even better patterns.

The next phase consists of VOR radial interception and tracking.
I don't want to even see an approach chart (IAP)until the student
has mastered these plus holding.

Do you hold an FAA Flight Instructor, Instrument-Airplane certificate
and rating to qualify you to make the quoted statement?

And, just who-in-the-hell is "Mitty" anyway? Could be just another
one of the Flight Simmers as far as we know.

Bob Moore
ATP B-707, B-727, L-188
Flight Instructor, Airplane-SE, Instrument-Airplane