"Al G" wrote in message
...

"Hilton" wrote in message
t...
Al G wrote:
Never the less, it is left to me to decide,
and for a 172 I stand by my statement, even to a FSDO.

It is up to you to decide *while adhering to the FARs*, I think you're
missing that point.

Hilton


(b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for
determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The
pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy
mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur

Nothing in the "regs" says I have to use flaps in a C172.

Al G




"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
Maybe not, you don't have to USE them..........but they must be operable.

Karl



I don't see where that is true.

Hilton helped us with the definition:

a. The aircraft must conform to its TC. Conformity to type design is
considered attained when the aircraft configuration and the components
installed are consistent with the drawings, specifications, and other
data that are part of the TC, which includes any supplemental type
certificate (STC) and field approved alterations incorporated into the
aircraft.


Obviously the 172H was certified to fly without flaps, as that is the normal
operating mode. The G's allowed are higher without flaps, so it must be
safer, right? Many of the tests for certification were done ONLY with flaps
up. This aircraft has no KOEL, nor does the limitations section of the
owners handbook refer to flaps. I can understand the requirement when
operating in a manner that requires them, say over an obstacle. In that case
your "Operations" require them. However, I do not see how operating with
flaps up and un-available violates any portion of the type certificate, and
therefore does not make this aircraft un-airworthy.

If an aircraft is certified VFR/IFR, and a vacuum pump goes south, you can
operate it VFR without a ferry permit, right? The attitude indicator is not
part of VFR certification. Do you need a "Special Certificate" to fly home?

How about the landing light or panel lights during daylight operations? Not
needed, not part of the day VFR certification. Same thing right?

Are you telling me that if you were in Joseph, Oregon, (No mechanics, No
Feds, No help), and
you had a panel light dimmer failure, that you wouldn't fly home and get it
fixed?

This is almost getting to the point where "everything" must work, (zero
tolerance). If I have two navigation lights on each wing, and one of them
burns out, can I fly at night? It sounds awfully unsafe to say I'm going to
go out and fly at night with a known inoperative nav light.
In fact, if this were true, you would cut your dispatch rate by adding the
extra nav light, as that provides one more item to go bad, thereby doubling
the effective "Nav Light Cancellation Rate".

Al G