On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 8:30:33 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
What you say is true, Tom, but not everyone flies fully coordinated at
all times.Â* Being able to recognize the onset of a departure from
controlled flight and taking quick, appropriate action might save a life.

I know what a spin entry feels like as well as a fully developed spin,
and I know how to recover from them.Â* And I try to fly coordinated but
some times it's useful not to, e.g., slipping to reduce altitude, or
skidding slightly in a long winged glider in the final turn to keep that
inside wing developing the same lift as the outside wing.

On 9/18/2019 11:59 PM, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 9:03:08 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
Maybe this qualifies as prevention rather than recovery but I practice spins all the time - particularly spin entries (all at altitude of course).. If you know how your glider behaves when it departs, can recognize a departure quickly and act promptly I've found it's possible to recover in 1/4 turn or so. Obviously that can vary by glider type and configuration. Even 1/4 turn is too much altitude loss at 150' AGL but maybe not at 350'. A surprise departure is likely to take longer to recognize and respond to than practice but longer still without any practice.

In any case I'd rather have some practice at it than not.

Similarly, I think landing where you are rapidly bleeding energy such as on an uphill field is a good skill and you can work your way up to a reasonable simulation by landing on the flat with increasing deployment of flaps and spoilers - all the way up to full if you're comfortable. Kawa's description of his landing seemed less about obstacles than rapid bleeding of speed before and following a bounce. Hitting a hidden obstacle truly is a "Fate is the Hunter" moment and an inherent hazard of committing to field landings if they aren't cultivated. I've only landed on a steep uphill once and it definitely is something that you could do better with practice.

Here again, I'd rather have some practice at it than not. Every landing is an opportunity to practice something before you have to do it under pressure.

Andy Blackburn
9B


On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 7:45:52 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
It does absolutely no good to practice something you will never use, which is a spin recovery from low altitude. The only solution is prevention - if a particular mistake is going to kill you, you can't do it. Most low altitude spins are due to uncoordinated flight - mostly misuse of the rudder because the pilot fears the visual image he gets by a steep bank.

No amount of landout practice is going to prepare you to landing in a field with unseen obstacles, which is what apparently happened to Kawa. If you push into an area with poor landing options you should not be surprised when things turn out badly.

Tom
Andy,

When you are down low (in the pattern) practice COORDINATED flight - that is what will save your ass, not a low-altitude spin recovery. This is just plain, simple common sense. Pilots, lots of them, who don't do this are getting killed, this is fact. Can you produce a SINGLE pilot who has done such a low altitude save?

Tom


Tom

--
Dan, 5J

We are all saying the same things, the ONLY difference is the emphasis on priorities. We all say that glider pilots should fly coordinated and be taught spin recognition and recovery. I am only pointing out that this isn't totally working because pilots are still killing themselves with low altitude stall-spins. Personally, this happened to a friend of mine, and I witnessed a second friend very nearly kill himself doing exactly this.

Tom