At 17:12 21 June 2005, Stefan wrote:
M B wrote:

to be part of a flight review. From the report, however,
it seems this pilot got spin entry training. In all

Read it again. His last spin training was 20 years
ago

Three months before the accident 'the pilot
had carried out some flights with the test pilot
(including diving at Vne and the start of spins.'

20 years ago may have been the last time he did fully
developed spins, but 'start of spins' sounds like
'spin entries' to me.

If your point was that his training was inadequate,
or
that perhaps the spin entries were demonstrated rather
than
trained, these are both possibilities, and I would
agree.

I recently had a student do some spin training with
me
and was happy to see him seek it out before flying
a very tautly spinning single-seater. I recommended
another
aerobatic glider instructor for further aerobatics
if
he wanted more interesting training. Some exposure

to aerobatics every so often seems to be good
for pilots.


I can see value in doing full 2 turn spins left and
right,
however, instead of just spin entries (which can be
too mild,
or not give a good sense of spin vs. spiral indications).

Which it doesn't need. At this early stage, recovery
actions are the same.

I might have this out of context. Please elucidate.
Spiral and spin recovery actions are quite differently
spelled out in our US manuals. I've also found that
students
'get it' after doing some 2-turn or more spins, but
don't necessarily 'get it' after only spin entry
recoveries.


Likewise, practicing spins and recoveries
with
the engine extended in a motorglider might be
prohibited or damaging, but this might be exactly
the training needed to prevent a 180 turn back to
the
airport from becoiming a stall/spin for example.

You never explored how your glider drops the wing with
the engine
extended/running? Gee, I wouldn't let my son be your
student.

I do not plan to teach spins with the engine extended
in contravention to a flight manual, such as the DG500MB,
paragraph 2.9

I know you weren't suggesting teaching spins in contravention
to the flight manual. I certainly agree with exploring
non-prohibited edges of the
performance envelope to get a feel for the aircraft
(including the control stiffness felt at higher speeds).


But why don't you do this with your son yourself, Stephan,
aren't you an instructor?


Stefan

Mark J. Boyd