On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:17:09 -0500, "John Stricker"
wrote:

Clare,

Yep, they really stink. That's why, for the last 6 or 7 years, they've been
the basis of every IRL car. Not most. All. I'm sure that full girdle
surrounding the crank was so much weaker than the old style main bearing
caps.

Cracks between the cylinders? Show me the SB. Better yet, just give me the
number, I have all of them. You've obviously never seen how a Northstar
block is designed and built. They may crack somewhere, but I'd be amazed to
find one crack between the cylinders.

The northstar is built in the same manner as most of the rest of the
world's top engines. The full girdle main caps are common to Toyota's
ZZ 4 cyl and their V6. I suspect the Lexus 8 is built the same way.
Many other engines are built the same way. However, unlike most other
"world class" engines,the Northstar is designated by GM as a
non-rebuildable engine. No undersize crank bearings are supplied. The
iron sleeves cannot be replaced OR rebored. The early model Northstars
had pourous castings, which caused oil leakage THROUGH the lower
crankcase. The rear main seals were problematic and have been
retrofitted with a new press-in seal. The extended drain intervals
recommended by GM (don't change oil until the oil condition indicator
says so - 8-12,000 miles) has caused 2 serious problems with the
engines. Seized oil control rings, which cause serious oil burning,
and sticking oil pressure regulators (relief valves) which prevent the
engine from producing oil pressure. The fix for the stuck rings is
basically filling the cyls with carbon solvent, letting it sit for
several hours, and vacuuming it out through the plug holes. Then you
pray the cyl walls have not been scuffed by the stuck rings, or you
are in for an engine replacement.
The oil pump has to come off the front of the engine to repair the no
oil pressure problem - assuming it was cought in time.
According to GM, the cyl heads are also "disposable" as the hard
powdered metal valve guides are reportedly non replaceable.
Head gasket leaks are also not uncommon, and GM has revised the head
torque spec and sequence.
It's an interference engine too - and with overhead cams - I'm not a
great fan of LONG timing chains after the 2.6 Mitso****ty fiasco.
If repairing or replacing an engine, GM deems it MANDATORY to replace
the composite intake manifold, as it is virtually impossible to
effectively clean it and be sure there is no debris in it that will
get sucked in and damage the new or repaired engine. The harmonic
balancers on the early engine had a tendancy to shift, causing rough
running. If and when a head cracks, or a gasket blows, the head bolts
MUST be replaced (not sure if it is just because they are torque to
yield, or some other phenomenon) and stripped threads are not at all
uncommon.. On both head bolts and main saddle bolts.
The starter, buried in the bowels of the engine, commonly succums to
the heat, requiring removal of the entire intake system.
One of my customers (in my current business- no longer automotive) is
on his 3rd or 4th Caddy in the last 5 or six years. He has had at
least 2 engine replacements under warranty and was joking with the
service manager they were going to have to give him a researved
parking space - the car spent as much time at the dealers as in his
driveway. He's a died in the wool Caddy man, so just kept trading them
in hoping to get a good one. Got an Escalade now.
$8,000 CDN for a good used engine? Why not just shop EBay and take your
choice of low mileage complete cars for the same amount?
May as well go to the casino - it's a crapshoot - enough of a risk
buying from wreckers who give a warranty on the engine (1 year for
personal use, 90 days commercial) and there are NO rebuilt Northstars
available in Canada. The major rebuilders won't touch them.
How on earth did I
ever find my two engines (one with a 4T80E attached) with wiring and
computer for about $500 each? Maybe I should sell them to the Canadian
market.

Even a blind pig will find the occaisional acorn.

As far as engine replacement if major repairs are needed goes, that's been a
CADILLAC policy for almost 20 years, long before the Northstar came on the
scene. It's a way to maintain high customer loyalty.

Yea, make them think they are the ONLY one with a problem - and, look,
we're giving (or selling, if you are off warranty) you a brand new
engine!!. Not like those other guys that put in a rebuilt.. Ha!!

Obviously, someone you know hasn't had good luck with them. That happens.
Ask Unka Bob what kind of luck he has with GM products. That doesn't make
them a bad engine and they're far more advanced technologically than the
LS6. I like them so I play with them. You don't care for them, I'd suggest
you stay away from them.
Over the years I have not been a great GM fan - nothing against them -
but I've had Mopars, Toyotas, AMCs, other assorted oddballs, and a
couple of Fords. I had a 28 Chevy and a 35 Chevy, a '57 Chevy, and a
'67 Nova. Now I've got a '94 TransSport 3800 and an '88 Chrysler 3.9
(Mitso****ty). The 3800 is a great little engine - pulls a WHOLE lot
better than the 3.0 Ford, and appears to be at least as good as Ford's
4.0. Miserable son-of-a gun to work on though. (due to location and
packaging - the engine itself is dead simple)
I'm of the KISS persuasion. If I'm not racing, 2 valves are as good
as 4, one cam as good as 4.

Oh, and BTW, I'd rather work on 6 Caddy's than one damn Mercedes or BMW, and
don't even begin to talk parts price comparison with me. $700 for a damn
fuel pump in a Mercedes (like I just put in my brothers car)?

How about several hundred dollars for a replacement fuel rail for a
SEFI 3800 GM? A lot of other insane prices too - like the automatic
level control compressor for the TransSport? Or the front sway bar? Or
the MAF sensor? I get sticker shock every time I need a part for the
Pontiac - I thought the Chryco parts were expensive. Every part I have
required for both of them has been more expensive than for my old RWD
Ford, or any of my Toyotas. They Toys all went over 300,00km without
opening the engine. Or the transmission.

Koni shocks
being $150 a pair cheaper for a BMW than the factory shocks. I think not.
And don't even begin to compare smoothness of the powertrain between one of
those cars and a Northstar because they simply don't compare.

Nothing beats an american 8 for smoothness and "Grunt"
Implementation my butt. I guess if you pay that much just to drive some
German or Japanese car it's easy to convince yourself just how superior it
is.
For the price of a Caddy I can drive some pretty nice Japanese
machinery. Not as fancy as the caddy, and not as powerful, but gets me
from place to place in comfort, and with a measure of reliability I
have not experienced with any of my American cars - of any vintage.
Now the Japs build some AWFULL junk too. I won't touch another Mitsu
engined vehicle - The 1600 Colt, then the 2600 Chrysler LeBaron, and
now the current 3.0 New Yorker have all had serious head and valve
train problems. Never hit 120,000 KM with either of them without a
serious infusion of time and cash. Pushing 250,000 km on the New
Yorker now, on third set of heads. A Caddy may well have outdone this
one, but I couldn't replace the heads on the Caddy for less than $300
Canadian. Wouldn't do it in an afternoon on my driveway either.
Caddy was about the same price as the New Yorker when new - if the
caddy wasn't fully loaded (and my Chrysler was). (didn't buy the
Chrysler new, either)